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Waratahs 2012

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Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
What about 2009?

Chisholm was chosen over him to run the lineout, and he didnt even do it at club level...
 
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TOCC

Guest
Slim 293 said:
What about 2009?

Chisholm was chosen over him to run the lineout, and he didnt even do it at club level...
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He also missed the first half of the 2009 season..

Chisholm has experience in running the Brumbes lineout, it's only logical you give it to him.

Horwill hasn't exactly had the experience at super rugby level due
to injury reasons mentioned above, so your not gonna make them do it at test level..

But this is digressing in a NSW thread..
 
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TOCC

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Bruce Ross said:
Queenslanders are always welcome in the mother State, TOCC, although the reverse doesn't necessarily apply.
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No, that would be at the detriment of lowering the IQ in both states if the best NSWelshman were to move North... ;)
On a side note, i do live in Sydney these days..
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
TOCC said:
He also missed the first half of the 2009 season..

Chisholm has experience in running the Brumbes lineout, it's only logical you give it to him.

Horwill hasn't exactly had the experience at super rugby level due
to injury reasons mentioned above, so your not gonna make them do it at test level..

But this is digressing in a NSW thread..
Click to expand...

Chisholm NEVER ran the Brumbies lineout.
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
TOCC said:
Ahhh actually it's a lot more simple then your suggesting..

Horwill was out injured for 9 months in 2010... Can't exactly call the line out from the sideline..

In 2011 he started off at blindside for the first 2 rounds and was then injured for a month... You don't have a blindside calling the line out and by the time Horwill came back, the Reds actually had a very efficient lineout... So why change
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I know he was injured :rolleyes: the point is even when not he hasn't had the call. Eales always had the call after he served his apprenticeship under McAll even when he returned after injury, though he sometimes shared duties with Giffen from what I recall at test level (but Giffen was an exceptional lineout talent also). As for not having a 6 call the lineout, as a Tahs fan TOCC you should know that Mowen has regularly called the lineouts for the Tahs from 6 or 8 and very successfully so.
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Chapman also called the lineout from 6 for the Brumbies, and I would also consider him one of the best lineout technicians in Australia...

I'm pretty sure Finegan also did it for a time for the Brumbies 04/05 when Giffen was benched/retired and Chisholm/Samo made up the locking pair...
 
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TOCC

Guest
Gnostic said:
I know he was injured :rolleyes: the point is even when not he hasn't had the call. Eales always had the call after he served his apprenticeship under McAll even when he returned after injury, though he sometimes shared duties with Giffen from what I recall at test level (but Giffen was an exceptional lineout talent also). As for not having a 6 call the lineout, as a Tahs fan TOCC you should know that Mowen has regularly called the lineouts for the Tahs from 6 or 8 and very successfully so.
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I live in NSW and this is a NSW thread, but i am definitely not a Tahs fan.....


We can hypothosise on the reasons for all we want... why doesn't someone just send him or link a message on twitter.... might be a lot more simple and straight forward then we are all making it out to be.. But i initially interjected to argue the point that it was Horwills reluctance to assume responsibility which stopped him from calling the lineouts... I think the fact he captains both the Super Rugby Champions and Wallabies would contradict this theory enough..

Lets move on because no amount of arguing is going to allow us to agree on the same reason unless someone has inside knowledge
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Palu is passed it.
All I've ever seen or heard of Horne is potential: he's never delivered in any sustained way. It is a triumph of hope over experience to think that he is anyone around whom to build a team: hope I have to eat my words.
Unless TPN learns to stop leading with his head into every tackle he's going to finish up like Ali (without the adulation).
 
Ruggo

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
qwerty51 said:
What are you basing this on? Which game? South Africa in the quarters? Problem looked to be with Moore imo, Sharpe came on and did not do any better. Horwill was excellent but so was Vickerman, he has a real presence around the field and is like another backrower with his effective cleaning out. Go look at who had the highest involvement rate of all the players in the 2011; Vickerman. I'm happy to classify Horwill as good as him since they do offer different games, Horwill is a better ball runner, Vickerman's better at the lineout, defence and cleaning out etc.

As for Sharpe well he's decent but no where near these two in terms of physicality, really lacks a punch in the breakdown and scrummaging.



Vickerman and Horwill are not similar.

Vickerman and Horwill were the best aspects of our forward play in every game. Yes even the quarters where the lineout went to shit.
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Blaming Moore just doesn't stack up. Both Sharpe and Simmons ran efficient lineouts when they started. As you highlight Vickerman brings some good aspects to the game but his lineout work was well below par. He just didn't meet the standards which he set based on past performances. It didn't look like he was as efficient as he has proven to be in the past. That isn't to say some fault also lay with the other players involved. The rest of his game was fine. I say Horwill was the best Australian lock by far as he had one of heaviest workloads in terms of game time of any Australian player and maintained his great form all the way through.
 
qwerty51

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Blaming Moore does stack up because the lineout did not improve when Sharpe came on. There were 2 constants there, Horwill & Moore.

Vickerman actually did have the highest workload...
 
Slim 293

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
It's hard to fix a lineout when it's already been decimated by the opposition...

As ruggo points out, our lineout was much better when Sharpe and to a lesser extent Simmons were running it...
 
Ruggo

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
qwerty51 said:
Blaming Moore does stack up because the lineout did not improve when Sharpe came on. There were 2 constants there, Horwill & Moore.

Vickerman actually did have the highest workload...
Click to expand...
Yes when the replacements came on but you neglect the fact that our lineout functioned better when Vicks didn't start. Yep including Moore's throwing.
 
F

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
qwerty51 said:
Blaming Moore does stack up because the lineout did not improve when Sharpe came on. There were 2 constants there, Horwill & Moore.

Vickerman actually did have the highest workload...
Click to expand...

It would have been pretty hard for Sharpe to have salvaged anything from the mess that our line-out was against the Boks in that quarterfinal.

Deans should have played all three with Horwill at 6. God knows he would have done more than Elsom.
 
rugbysmartarse

rugbysmartarse

Alan Cameron (40)
What's up with BKH? I had big hopes last year, and in typical waratah fashion I got nothing. Anyone know if his injuries are rehabbed?
 
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