Waratahs 2011
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Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
The acquisition of Cross is a big surprise. Had the test results on Sailor came out a few weeks earlier we may have got him straight from rugby league and he would have been better value then than he would be in 2011.
I can't see him getting a gig ahead of Horne but Robbie is injured so often Cross is likely to be an alternative to Carter who started in 7 games at outside centre when Horne was injured. He is handy cover for the wing spot also.
His coming to the Tahs will be bad news for young centres Bennetts and Mitchell who have been in the Waratahs stable for 3 years, including their last year at school. But the Rebels need to dish out some rookie contracts and one of them may get a gig there. Bennetts played well at 13 for Eastwood last year; so when Mitchell came back from injury he was forced to play on the wing. Ironically, Mitchell could be be assessed by the Rebels as a better rookie bet because he can play two positions.
Oz Super15 teams can't have more than 30 players on their roster, at least starting out the year. After that it is Rafferty's Rules and pro academy guys get seconded when there are injuries and get upgraded when they have played 3 games. Having a limit of 30 again makes sense in a year when a new franchise is starting out otherwise players could have been warehoused to keep them in the city.
In my list of player movements a page or two ago on this thread I posted an analysis of what spots were left in a 30 man roster. In that post I had young Woodhouse, currently in the Tahs pro academy, getting Anesi's contract spot. It was based on newspaper reports last year that Woodhouse got a 3 year deal with the Tahs.
That newspaper info could have been bunk and/or Woodhouse could have a 2nd year in the pro academy. But like every other Oz franchise the Tahs have to hire 3 rookies as part of the 30 man roster and I had Woodhouse as one of them, along with Ryan, and also Peterson (about whom there is no contract news).
There is still an anomaly about whether or not Tilse is contracted for 2011; so his spot could go to a back. I will do a player by player listing of the Tahs roster in the next few days. Meantime if anybody can provide a link to Baxter's last re-signing - and ditto for Tilse - I would appreciate their providing the info.
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I can't see him getting a gig ahead of Horne but Robbie is injured so often Cross is likely to be an alternative to Carter who started in 7 games at outside centre when Horne was injured. He is handy cover for the wing spot also.
His coming to the Tahs will be bad news for young centres Bennetts and Mitchell who have been in the Waratahs stable for 3 years, including their last year at school. But the Rebels need to dish out some rookie contracts and one of them may get a gig there. Bennetts played well at 13 for Eastwood last year; so when Mitchell came back from injury he was forced to play on the wing. Ironically, Mitchell could be be assessed by the Rebels as a better rookie bet because he can play two positions.
Oz Super15 teams can't have more than 30 players on their roster, at least starting out the year. After that it is Rafferty's Rules and pro academy guys get seconded when there are injuries and get upgraded when they have played 3 games. Having a limit of 30 again makes sense in a year when a new franchise is starting out otherwise players could have been warehoused to keep them in the city.
In my list of player movements a page or two ago on this thread I posted an analysis of what spots were left in a 30 man roster. In that post I had young Woodhouse, currently in the Tahs pro academy, getting Anesi's contract spot. It was based on newspaper reports last year that Woodhouse got a 3 year deal with the Tahs.
That newspaper info could have been bunk and/or Woodhouse could have a 2nd year in the pro academy. But like every other Oz franchise the Tahs have to hire 3 rookies as part of the 30 man roster and I had Woodhouse as one of them, along with Ryan, and also Peterson (about whom there is no contract news).
There is still an anomaly about whether or not Tilse is contracted for 2011; so his spot could go to a back. I will do a player by player listing of the Tahs roster in the next few days. Meantime if anybody can provide a link to Baxter's last re-signing - and ditto for Tilse - I would appreciate their providing the info.
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Newb
Trevor Allan (34)
great rugby gods, please don't allow hickey to select cross over horne. if he's injured, that's one thing.
i have a feeling there could be some musical chairs in tah land in the future.
10/12 hangers
10/12 barnes
12/13 horne
12/13 cross
12/13 carter
someone is bound to lose out.
i have a feeling there could be some musical chairs in tah land in the future.
10/12 hangers
10/12 barnes
12/13 horne
12/13 cross
12/13 carter
someone is bound to lose out.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Cross's best games this year were at 12. He was an unexpected (to me) revelation in that position. IMO he has probably been recruited as a 12 who can back up for Horne at 13 if Horne gets injured. I think he's a good signing as its a one-year contract and one of Sidey, Bennetts and Mitchell should be ready to step up by 2012.
My guess is that Hickey has pencilled in Barnes at 10, back-up Hangers; Cross at 12, back up Carter; Horne at 13, back-up Cross; Sidey to back-up 13 if there are multiple injuries (he has to go well in Shute soon if he is to make a mark at the next level). Mitchell and Bennetts the next level, however I expect one of them will get a game or two as the attrition rate in the longer S15 comp is going to be horrendous and Hickey, despite his kind words, does not believe in player rotation and resting when injured. On this year's evidence its play till you drop...then bring in the next bloke.
My guess is that Hickey has pencilled in Barnes at 10, back-up Hangers; Cross at 12, back up Carter; Horne at 13, back-up Cross; Sidey to back-up 13 if there are multiple injuries (he has to go well in Shute soon if he is to make a mark at the next level). Mitchell and Bennetts the next level, however I expect one of them will get a game or two as the attrition rate in the longer S15 comp is going to be horrendous and Hickey, despite his kind words, does not believe in player rotation and resting when injured. On this year's evidence its play till you drop...then bring in the next bloke.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
That's the only inexplicable move by the Tahs.
I don't understand the 3 rookie requirement. Are you saying that we couldn't now sign ex-Brumbie lock Sitaleki Timani ?
topo
Cyril Towers (30)
Lee, is the 30 man limit and 3 rookies an actual requirement, and if so, whose? Is is ARU or SANZAR?
I thought there was some flexibility around the 30 man limit. A few years ago most squads were 32 but they were cut back in the last couple of years because of financial constraints.
If what you are saying is correct then we will need some good props in the pro academy as it is a long season to get through with only 4. They have had at least 5 contracted props in recent years. I can't see them going backwards from there. I'll see if I can clarify the Tilse situation to clear that up.
I thought there was some flexibility around the 30 man limit. A few years ago most squads were 32 but they were cut back in the last couple of years because of financial constraints.
If what you are saying is correct then we will need some good props in the pro academy as it is a long season to get through with only 4. They have had at least 5 contracted props in recent years. I can't see them going backwards from there. I'll see if I can clarify the Tilse situation to clear that up.
I think Lee is working off the old collective bargaining agreement, agreed to by RUPA, the ARU and the states. In it it maxed squad sizes at 33 I believe at least a minimum of 3 and maximum of 5 players had to be 'rookies'. A rookie could only be a rookie for one year. So he couldn't go from being a Tah rookie to a Reds rookie.
The CBA is now being renegotiated and details are scarce. But it was suggested that squad sizes would be reduced to 30 (one time it was mentioned 28!) but I haven't heard confirmation on the rookie requirements.
The CBA is now being renegotiated and details are scarce. But it was suggested that squad sizes would be reduced to 30 (one time it was mentioned 28!) but I haven't heard confirmation on the rookie requirements.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Yeah I was working of that old agreement in regard to the rookies. I assumed that pending a re-negotiation the old agreement would be observed.
As for the 30 man limit: it was mentioned on the Rugby Club a while back, and Rupert Guinness mentioned it in an article on Tuesday:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/tahs-soon-to-decide-between-cross-staniforth-20100621-yscj.html
Mind you Rupert ask me some of the names of the players in a JW v Runners game as some of the jersey numbering didn't match the details on the team sheets. Maybe he is vague on this matter also.
Note that the article said The Waratahs also have a vacancy in the forwards - most probably for a second-rower - but that is not likely to be filled for several weeks as they continue their search for the right player.
Maybe Guinness hasn't worked out how good Peterson is - or maybe the big guy has been poached but Guinness is constrained from mentioning it.
Definitely watch this space.
As for the 30 man limit: it was mentioned on the Rugby Club a while back, and Rupert Guinness mentioned it in an article on Tuesday:
http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/tahs-soon-to-decide-between-cross-staniforth-20100621-yscj.html
Mind you Rupert ask me some of the names of the players in a JW v Runners game as some of the jersey numbering didn't match the details on the team sheets. Maybe he is vague on this matter also.
Note that the article said The Waratahs also have a vacancy in the forwards - most probably for a second-rower - but that is not likely to be filled for several weeks as they continue their search for the right player.
Maybe Guinness hasn't worked out how good Peterson is - or maybe the big guy has been poached but Guinness is constrained from mentioning it.
Definitely watch this space.
R
rugby_man
Guest
Ryan Cross is a waste signing IMO. Rory Sidey and Tim Bennetts are good back-ups to have in the midfield, add in Cameron Mitchell as well. I'm sure these guys could have done the job if Horne or Carter was to be injured. Sidey has even played Heineken Cup so he has the experience to make the next step regurlarly.
Talking about player movements, I had a conversation the other day with a somebody close to the Waratahs. They mentioned to me that Hugh Roach was being chased by the Waratahs for next season. It wouldn't be a bad move at all as he has plenty of potential. Hope it is more than a ameteur gig as there were apparently other clubs interested in him as you'd imagine. They also revealed the Waratahs are close to signing Fine Moeakiola who is playing league for either Roosters or Souths, couldn't remember which side. Played schoolboys a few years ago IIRC. Alfi Mafi from the Brumbies was mentioned as a targets as well.
Talking about player movements, I had a conversation the other day with a somebody close to the Waratahs. They mentioned to me that Hugh Roach was being chased by the Waratahs for next season. It wouldn't be a bad move at all as he has plenty of potential. Hope it is more than a ameteur gig as there were apparently other clubs interested in him as you'd imagine. They also revealed the Waratahs are close to signing Fine Moeakiola who is playing league for either Roosters or Souths, couldn't remember which side. Played schoolboys a few years ago IIRC. Alfi Mafi from the Brumbies was mentioned as a targets as well.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Would be good to clear that up. Thanks. Sometimes trying to work out these things out I feel like I'm one of those folks who try to read tea leaves. Or like one of the old astronomers who inferred there was a heavenly body because something was making others move. Although I would never accuse Jeremy Tilse of having a heavenly body, you know what I mean.
I think they need both a LHP and THP as they had lin 2010 with Ofa and Paddy. I'm not sure if Ofa would want another pro academy gig, and not 100% sure if Salesi Manu will be ready to step up to the bench as LHP if there is an injury after just one full year in 1st grade. What do you think of Tetera Faulkner, the SD LHP?
As for a pro academy THP, I don't know, but what do you think of Eddie Aholelei from Manly?
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gone
Ted Fahey (11)
Personally I haven't seen enough of him to comment but you could do a lot worse than Travis Church from Gordon. Former NZ under 19 player and more recently spent a few years at the Force academy. Because of this he fulfils the residency requirements to be a local player. Unlike most props around in Aus at the his core strength is his scrummaging and work rate around the park is definitely secondary. Having said that he has put in some big hits in defense this year. One factor against him is at 25, the powers to be might think he is too old for an academy spot and may go for someone younger. But so far this year he has been the only Gordon player consistently playing well week in, week out. Also gave Tilse a tough time against Uni and had the better of Ofa against Easts.
Edit: Obviously I'm biased towards Gordon players but Church along with Alcock are the only 2 I would consider for higher honours currently.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Disagree about Cross. With the restriction of signing just 30 Super15 players Hickey needed somebody who could play in the centres and on the wing, and he said as much.
With Freier gone to the Rebels they will have to get a hooker for the pro academy. I thought that the Uni hookers, Roberts or Roberson, would be first cabs off the rank, but you never know: Roach, who was the starting hooker for Oz Schools last year in Yr. 11 and will probably get the gig again in 2010, is a marvellous talent. And don't forget that the Tahs gave pro academy contracts in 2010 to two 2009 Oz Schoolboys.
There are no spots left for Fine or Alfi for a Tahs Super15 contract now that Cross has been hired, and I doubt if Mafi would accept a pro academy contract. I remember Fine from Newington and would be surprised if the Tahs would be interested in him for a Super15 contract even if they had room. He's probably somebody now too old to play in the Toyota Cup yet not good enough to be picked up in the NRL. He could get a pro academy spot though.
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R
rugby_man
Guest
I wouldn't mind Eddie Aholelei. He has good potential and has been good for Manly. He wouldn't look out of sorts if he went to the next step IMO. Salesi Manu has been very impressive in the Under 20 World Cup and I think deserves a pro academy gig. Tetera Faulkner is another who is putting together good performances for Southern Districts in the Shute Shield. He played ACT Schoolboys and maybe even Australian Schoolboys or close to it back in 2005 I believe.
R
rugby_man
Guest
I wouldn't mind getting Siliva Siliva from the Force Academy here on a pro academy gig. I've been very impressed with him in the games I've seen of him playing for the Oz Under 20 side. Although I think Hugh Roach wouldn't let anybody down if he was to get that spot in the pro academy. He is a very good player, hence why he will most likely play Australian Schoolboys 2 years consecutively.
Doing a bit of googling, Fine seems to have been very close to an NRL call up this year. Wouldn't mind seeing him at the Tahs. I recall he had definite potential. Alfi Mafi is a bit of a strange target, especially after signing Karauria Henry from the Brumbies. I'd imagine he wouldn't settle for a pro academy gig.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Me too, but I hope that the Rebels pick him up because he's a Victorian; or at least he went to school there. He's in the Force Academy but not the pro group, IIRR.
As I have mentioned before: the selection of the Rebels pro academy will be more vital for them than for other Oz Super teams - and it's important enough for them. The Rebels pro academy guys would have a more realistic path to Super rugby because the extra foreign players have to be phased out.
Cutter
Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Staniforth would have filled the same role and, arguably, is better in each position. I don't understand why he hasn't been given more opportunities in the centres. Cross is not dynamic enough.
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