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Waratah Fan Forum

Waratah fan forum:

  • Good idea

    Votes: 27 60.0%
  • Bad idea

    Votes: 18 40.0%

  • Total voters
    45
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RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Ailing Waratahs turn to their fans for answers Greg Growden

LONG suffering Waratahs fans will at last get their chance to tell the NSW coaching staff, players and administrators what they really think of their under-performing team. Waratahs officials, who are eager to improve the team's public image, have organised a public forum to be held at the Sydney Football Stadium on Thursday night when followers will be invited to offer solutions and ask questions of senior team figures.

Waratahs chief executive Jason Allen said yesterday that fronting the meeting would be the three Waratahs coaches - Chris Hickey, Michael Foley and Scott Bowen - four senior players and himself. The players are expected to be captain Phil Waugh, back-up skipper Dean Mumm, Berrick Barnes and Drew Mitchell.

Allen said the aim of the ''fan forum'' was to get feedback and work on ways to improve the relationship between the team and its supporters. It was also an opportunity for the coaching staff and players to explain why they play a certain style of football, as well as explaining the tactics they have used during the season.

The Waratahs have in the past boasted a healthy connection with their fan base but the relationship has been volatile this season. During their loss to the Cheetahs at the SFS last month they were repeatedly booed by their home crowd and jeered from the field - by far the most vocal protest by Waratahs followers in years. Even against the Force last Saturday night, the Waratahs were subjected to boos from spectators who had grown tired of their tactic of relentlessly kicking away possession.

Waratahs officials are also concerned about a slump in recent home attendances, and want to use the forum to discover ways to lure spectators back to the SFS.

Now let's try to work hard on not letting this thread degenerate into a cesspit of spite. I'd be interested in two things here:

1) Any tah fans going and what is the message you want to convey?

&

2) Even if you are not going, AS A TAH FAN, what message would you want conveyed?

Lets try to be intelligent here, who knows, someone may even make a story of the main site out of it prior to the Fan Forum.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Both this thread and the fans' forum have the potential for fireworks.

One thing that has always given me the shits is seeing the SFS at less than maximum capacity - even giving away tickets would be better than all those empty seats. The Waratahs have already paid for the stadium so they may as well get a crowd in, sell some merchandise, have a better atmosphere, and it would most likely also help with sponsorship and TV deals.


On the playing side, I would be interested to know how many players are carrying injuries and to what extent fatigue has played a part in some of the poor results. Why is it that squad rotation seems to mainly be forced through injury rather than planned? Why have players in the squad if you don't trust them to start when there are injuries (eg Halangahu)? The scrum has been quite strong this season - why does that mean the Waratahs feel it necessary to score push over tries at the expense of other options? Do they watch their previous matches to identify areas that were successful (fast recycle, Beale in the line) and those that were not (much of the kicking, especially Burgess' box kicks, super slow ruck ball followed by one out runners)? Do they actually plan to avoid the unsuccessful and replicate the successful but things just go tits up? eg Burgess just goes nuts and keeps on kicking
 

Rob42

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Both this thread and the fans' forum have the potential for fireworks...

Yes, but how many fans do you think will give it to Phil Waugh, face-to-face?

I agree with apparent loss of game plan - I can enjoy a good tight tussle as much as a ten-try extravaganza, but I do get frustrated by aimless play, or appraently not playing to their strengths.

I would be asking if they are concerned that a lack of binus points could prove costly, as it has in previous years. Winning the tough games is necessary in Super 15, but if you don't pick up bonus points, you can still miss out.
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
I agree people would be reluctant to give it to Phil, not cause he's scary, but because in person he speaks very well, makes convincing arguments and backs them up with relevant facts

--- sent via TapaTalk
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Better - and I mean WAAAAY better - beer and meals service. One time it took me a full 30 minutes to get beers and hot dogs. Ask Blue.

As far as game style goes - I haven't really got a problem. Just win, you bastards.

Yeah, it was best when Hahn had PET bottles sold from little kiosks all over the place, no waiting in the middle of matches for 30 minutes, but mobile beer suppliers that walk through the crowd and sell you beer and decent food would be best.
 

Rob42

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
Unfortunately the Tahs wouldn't have any say over catering, that would be the SCG trust, and until the Tahs regularly pull sell-outs, the won't have much bargaining power with the Trust.
 

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
I find it really hard to believe catering is the no. 1 issue. Christ there are bars and restaurants no mroe than 5 mins walk away for pre and post game activites.

My suggestions:

1) bring back a game day or two each year so people can actually bring their kids
2) put the pregame on the big screen in the stadium (they seem to have stopped doing this)
3) lower ticket prices
4) when crowds look like being low, allow people who have brought a full fare ticket already to buy another for half price in the days leading up the game
 

Ruggo

Mark Ella (57)
If I was a Tahs fan I would be asking these questions.

1/ Is Matt Burke going to issue a formal appology for his outburst against the Tahs fans.

2/ At what point do you draw a line in the sand between treating me as a fan and as a consumer.
 
S

Stickybeak

Guest
No one needs to "give it" to anyone. The Tahs have many problems, including a sense of entitlement: they expect to win but are not prepared to do what is necessary in the hard yards department.
They need to look after the tier below: their answer is to buy in players. Blokes like Tom Carter who is unable to pass accurately both ways chug along because nothing is done in the development to identify real talent: lets face it he's in the team because he went to a historically strong rugby school. He's not even the best inside centre of his age from the north shore I'll bet.
Since the ARU cannot afford the ARC money needs to be spent in the grass roots. Kids need to be kept in the game when they go to high school. At the moment they are lost to the clubs, pretty much and they experience a variable rugby life in their schools, including no rugby. If there was a natural club based pathway, instead of the Old Boys clamouring for CAS and GPS rugby premierships, things would be a lot stronger. At the moment the competitions are lopsided and therefore teams do not get good week in week out competition. some logic applied to structures would remedy this but there is too much vested interest for it to ever happen.
This problem creeps into even club sides with UNi and Randwick seeming to have more s15 players than most other clubs - the former markedly so. Why, for instance, was Burgess allowed to go from Easts back to Uni? If he didn't want to play at Easts he should have been sent to Penrith by the ARU - if he moved for money then thats a joke...if he moved to win a premiership then who cares? A premiership paid for by my taxes and Buildcorp aint worth winning.
 

#1 Tah

Chilla Wilson (44)
If I was a Tahs fan I would be asking these questions.

1/ Is Matt Burke going to issue a formal appology for his outburst against the Tahs fans.

2/ At what point do you draw a line in the sand between treating me as a fan and as a consumer.

I would like an apology from burkey about our goal kickers.

I was at a Tahs training session a week ago, and Burkey had a kicking contest with KB (Kurtley Beale), Hangas, BB and McKibben. Burkey won.
 

rugbysmartarse

Alan Cameron (40)
Firstly, I think this is bad idea, even when measured against a franchise that have made bad ideas seem commonplace (like acquiring Cross in the offseason). What good do they think can come of this? the fans letting them know they are not happy with the football? If they don't know that yet there are bigger problems at HQ than a few bums missing from seats. Also, why the fuck are they turning to the public for assistance - it's your bloody job to work out how to play good rugby! Do I get a fee for implementing succesfull ideas? Is there a set of KPIs?

Anyway, not wanting to tell the coaches how to suck eggs, but I would suggest to them (were I going along) that the reason fans are booing (well, those fans that bother showing up) is that the team is playing a fairly uninspiring brand of football since their first bye. It seems as though the loss to the cheatahs wasnt a wake up call, it was an unexpected slap that has left many in the waratah camp backing into their shells. Since that game, the first option has been to look for the attacking kick. Has it paid off? maybe once or twice (unless you count Cross' try last weekend as a set move). Surely we have better options on good attacking ball than to kick for a winger? But the biggest change since a reasonable exciting portion of last season is the offloading forwards. None of them do it anymore, they seem scared of the potential turnover so the whole team has contracted Tom Carter Syndrome and go head down ball tucked into any contact. When they do have good ball, or sustained possession, they cant seem to go anywhere with it.

I also don't buy the "they kicked to us and made us play negatively" excuse that Hickey is putting about (and I expect will be his "go to" retort at the fan forum). Yes the opposition team is kicking at you - it's a better than 50% chance you will kick it back to them. And they back that they are better kickers than you. And often they are correct! The reason the Tahs are so consistantly kicking the ball back to their opposition is that the forwards are WALKING!!!! No-one is running back to support a counter, no-one is running into position to provide options, and no-one is preparing for a ruck should Beale or Turner get tackled. I suppose the problem is a bit chicken and egg, are the forwards walking because they expect KB (Kurtley Beale) to kick, or is KB (Kurtley Beale) forced to kick because no-one is there to support him? Either way, surely it is the coaches job to set the strategy for the game, and then ENSURE THE PLAYERS PLAY TO THE STRATEGY. I'm not sure if it's fitness or attitude, but either problem is fixable by a good coaching staff.

Beau Robinson was on Inside Rugby last night and said something interesting about the difference between the tahs and the reds. At the reds there is a young culture that promotes backing yourself and going for it, he says, which was not evident at the tahs. I was hoping someone made more of this response (but of course they didnt) and asked where the old conservativity is from. The head coach is the same, so did link learn a few things in Paris? Is it the playing group and is Waugh really dragging the team into a conservative game plan? Or is it NSWHQ sticking their nose in? Unfortunately the opportunity was lost and they crossed to Marto's arse, or some such thing.

Any way I look at the problem of the waratahs, I come to the same conclusion. The fans are not turning up, because the team are not playing well (or in some cases even winning) because the team are not playing to their potential and are playing a poor game plan poorly. And in my view, the underlying problem to all the above is coaching staff.

Anyway, sorry for the long post (got the blood up - good thing I havent been drinking!) but thats what I would ask them. The big question though, is would they listen?
 
T

Tahfan

Guest
I find it really hard to believe catering is the no. 1 issue. Christ there are bars and restaurants no mroe than 5 mins walk away for pre and post game activites.

My suggestions:

1) bring back a game day or two each year so people can actually bring their kids
2) put the pregame on the big screen in the stadium (they seem to have stopped doing this)
3) lower ticket prices
4) when crowds look like being low, allow people who have brought a full fare ticket already to buy another for half price in the days leading up the game

3 & 4 here hit the nail on the head.

I'm not sure if I am going just yet but if I were:
Ticket prices would be the biggest issue. Rugby fans get ripped off year in year out and we are being served up muck for our money too currently.

Style of play would be a big thing but at the end of the day look at the reds crowd rd 2. Beautiful day, biggest local derby, tahs flogged the rebels wk1 and looked shit hot. Crap crowd.

Comparison:
Sths 14 home games $310 (Cost Per Game = $22)
Roosters 11 home games Gold package - 325 (CPG = $30)
Swans Gold Package 11 games $330 (CPG = $30)
Tahs 8 home games Blue Blood Package - $394 (CPG = $50)

There is absolutely 100% no possible way they can justify this pricing disparity especially as the product they are serving up is utter crap.

Secondly. How about some love for the members? We get basically no discount for paying the full amount up front yet offers such as the 2 for one come out during the year, and even though they are CAT4 lets be honest you buy those and simply walk around to one of the thousands of better seats after 15 mins. Also family offers that come out we essentially cannot take advantage of either.

I'd like to see a tiered discount structure up to maybe 10 or 20% based on tenure with 5 years getting you the max.

Schools pricing. as people say lets get the stadium jam packed. $10 schools tickets, better priced family packages would all help. Giving away free tickets is not the answer. Ppl who turn up on free tickets won't buy much merchandise so get them to pay a little something and they may be more inclined to.
 
T

Tahfan

Guest
If I was a Tahs fan I would be asking these questions.

1/ Is Matt Burke going to issue a formal appology for his outburst against the Tahs fans.

2/ At what point do you draw a line in the sand between treating me as a fan and as a consumer.

1 - LOL. Nice thought but given he wrote the following week that he felt he had nothing to apologies for good luck with that!

2 - Answer is as soon as you pay them ;)
 

HG

Jimmy Flynn (14)
As a Reds supporter if feel that the Tahs need to go through the same sort of clean out as the Reds have over the last few years. They need to start developing some of the talent that the schools produce in NSW. The Reds stuck with Cooper through his growth period when he was very flakey and lacked concertration. The Tahs seem stuck in the moment and don't seem to look at the future. Barns is an example of this as is Tom Carter as someone else has mentioned in an earlier post.They have holes all over their team when players get injured. I would be asking about about their recrutement officers and their roll. Start to look outside the square and get rid of the old school tie lot out of NSWRU they seem to have lost the vision of how to get the performance out of the team. (did they have any vision to start with)
 

Westy

Bob McCowan (2)
I'm thinking of heading along. Although seems like desperate stakes if this is seen as a solution.

My thoughts:
  1. the style of play: plenty of comments have been made on the stodgy nature of the game play. i) forwards not hustling, ii) Burgess taking his sweet time to deliver, iii) lack of players that can spark breaks, iv) overuse of kicking (my response to the Force argument is that people are afraid of kicking to the Crusaders for fear of counter attack), v) centres not breaking the line (Cross/Carter), vi) that all too common feeling when we score first points but fade out after 30 minutes (think Waratahs v Bulls 2010). In short - a lack of joy and celebration.
  2. ticket prices - can't see how they can keep up the pricing system. Premium seating pricing only works if seats are in demand. There are no internal barriers at the stadium meaning a free flow of people. The half full stadium means you can generally pick your seat wherever you like.
  3. ANZ stadium - always a terrible idea.
  4. parking costs at Fox Studios/outside the grounds - actually anything to do with parking is terrible, takes about 45 minutes to get out.
  5. peripheral marketing - the half time videos are terrible (anyone else cringe when they see Phil and Tatafu saying "make some noise"?). The best thing about the guys is the random twitter feeds coming from Mitchell and Beale.
Goods things:
  • the guys can grind out a win
  • they stick around to say hi to fans and take photos after a game
  • ... Im sure there are a few more there somewhere.
Anyway, as I said I'm thinking of heading along and am happy to meet up with others from the forum.
 

Rebel rouser

Ted Fahey (11)
Firstly, I think this is bad idea. [...] What good do they think can come of this?

I agree. I'm not a Tah fan (obviously) but I'm also pragmatic enough to know the health of the game in Sydney has a major effect on the health of the game country wide. It's good that the administrators are looking to turn about their public perception, but I have my extreme doubts about doing it this way. It sounds like a token effort, but how likely is it to change the fans perception of the team? Let's not forget, the last 'honesty session' at an aussie super rugby franchise was called by Andy Friend - and we all know how that ended!!

You've given Tahs fans a few years of 'winning ugly' and it clearly hasn't gone down well. Maybe it's time to follow the reds prototype. Give your players a license to have a go and see what happens. Maybe you'll ended up withing winning and entertaining rugby. Who knows?
 

Rob42

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
It may be a token gesture, but I think it's better than nothing.

Mind you, the vitriol might be directed between fans rather than at the administration if the subject of Tom Carter is raised.
 
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