Wallaby Watch 2014

[Braveheart81]

Is that even logical ??????

Not at all but it seems to reflect what you're saying about Horwill.

You're saying he's not playing to the best of his ability which just about everyone agrees with.

It's largely irrelevant though. His form compared to others is what is important as far as Wallaby selections are concerned.

We've got Simmons, Horwill, Carter and Skelton in the squad and Link is going to pick three of them each test.

If you look at the next rung down, we've got Luke Jones, Leon Power, Sam Wykes and Caderyn Neville as other options.

I've excluded Douglas and Pyle who are off overseas.

Does it make sense to pick a player who is playing worse than Horwill but are in good form relative to their own ability? I don't think so.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I agree with it depends on how a player is actually playing as compared to his peers. If selection is warranted based on current performance then of course the potential to play even better (based on past performances) is a positive. I don't think I've ever said otherwise.

 

[Brumby Runner]

No. That's what BH is pointing out Scrubber.

It's not important to an extent, how well they are playing compared to how well a player can possibly play. If we are talking about selection, it's important how well they are playing compared to the other options.

If anything, the potential to play even better is a positive for a player's selection, not a negative as you seem to see it.

TWAS, these comments could equally apply to Lealiifano as they do to Horwill. Both are returning from serious injuries that caused a significant drop in current form. Kev is perhaps a half a season in front of Christian in his recovery, and consequently is now getting closer to his previous form. In both cases however, imo, there isn't a stand out performer currently that should take their spots in the squad. Horwill is being pushed by Jones, and perhaps Christian is being pushed by Taps, but I am prepared to go with Link's selections as being best for his plans for the Wallabies.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Not really. Because one has about 5 years of previous form in the bank whilst the other has his 2012 form.

You basically said it took Lilo from 2007 to 2012 to reach his best and has not replicated it in the close to 1 and a half full seasons of rugby he has played since.

We can bag Deans' selections quite fairly but one thing he did quite well from 2008 to 2010 was give young players opportunities. There's a reason why Lilo wasn't one of them, he hadn't shown the same potential as a number of other players until 2012.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Not really. Because one has about 5 years of previous form in the bank whilst the other has his 2012 form.

You basically said it took Lilo from 2007 to 2012 to reach his best and has not replicated it in the close to 1 and a half full seasons of rugby he has played since.

We can bag Deans' selections quite fairly but one thing he did quite well from 2008 to 2010 was give young players opportunities. There's a reason why Lilo wasn't one of them, he hadn't shown the same potential as a number of other players until 2012.

I disagree obviously, but haven't got the perseverance to continue a pointless discussion.

 

[Scrubber2050]

BR,
Personally I think Horwill is pushed to 4th in that Simmons, Carter and Skelton are in front of him. Jones may be pushing James but I don't really think so.

Horwill will only get a spot back if he plays to his absolute full potential (which can be awesome).Irrespective of whatever reasons, valid or not.

Suppose time will tell, as it always does....

 

[Viking]

Exactly. He had 4-5 years of being a a decent super rugby player but it was only on season when he showed top form. That was 2 years ago. He was unable to replicate that in 2013 and his international form was merely adequate.

It shouldn't be expected that he will necessarily repeat 2012 form regularly. Not saying he want, but it shouldn't just be expected.

I'm going to have to agree with this. As a Lilo fan, he was a good super player for many years and had a brief stint with exception form before a horrendous ankle injury.

I would like to mention, his good form correlates to playing at 12. His exceptional form was created when he was moved to 10 when To'omua I believe was injured.

I have always thought Lilo was a good 12, past evidence and form suggests so. But he has never been a great 12.
He could be an exceptional 10. He has great pass, threatening running game, and a very cool and calm head on the field. Which I think is better suited too a 10, a more aggressive attitude is suited to a 12. Also his ability to set the back-line alight was far greater then Toomuas - based off his brief stint at 10.

Why the Brumbies don't play Lilo at 10, To'omua at 12 is very frustrating. Even with a conservative game-plan Lilo has to skills (kicking, tackling) to execute.

 

[BDA]

Anyone who thinks Horwill shouldn't be in the squad is delusional. Jones, Wykes and Neville, aren't better options. Even if Kane Douglas was available I wouldn't pick him. Overrated imo. The only second rower playing in Australia that might push their way into that top 4 is Pots.

 

[BDA]

It's frustrating that Lilo didn't sign with the Rebels, as we'd perhaps see him move to 10.

 

[Viking]

Agreed on Lilo. I am a die hard Brumbies fan but I also like to see players playing in there best positions. Lilo would be better served playing 10 in another team.

McCabe I always thought would make a great 13 also but won't get tested in that position with Kurindrani there.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think Lilo's main problem is where he plays for the Brumbies. Now as much as I'm not going to tell one of our greatest ever 10's where to play his inside backs, I believe Lilo and To'omua should be switched around. Matt has absolutely carved up at inside centre for the Wallabies. He's still good at five eighth at Super rugby level, but I can't help but feel the Brumbies attack would be devastating with him at 12 (to say nothing of how amazing he is on D in that channel). Lilo is the opposite. I think he benefits from being the distributor and game manager at 10, rather than the creative running/stepping inside centre. He really should be Foley's backup 10 for the Wallabies.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Agreed on Lilo. I am a die hard Brumbies fan but I also like to see players playing in there best positions. Lilo would be better served playing 10 in another team.

McCabe I always thought would make a great 13 also but won't get tested in that position with Kurindrani there.

Totally agree on Pat at outside centre. He's runs great lines, is one of the bravest midfield defenders I've seen in Gold and can pass. He doesn't quite have the size of Tevita, but he makes up for it in ticker IMHO.

 

[fatprop]

Anyone who thinks Horwill shouldn't be in the squad is delusional. Jones, Wykes and Neville, aren't better options. Even if Kane Douglas was available I wouldn't pick him. Overrated imo. The only second rower playing in Australia that might push their way into that top 4 is Pots.

If Douglas was available, I would have selected him instead of Skelton. Douglas is near the best TH lock in the country IMHO, he plays long minutes and does all the hard stuff.

He and Carter would have provided great balance on one side of the scrum.

 

[BDA]

Plays long minutes, but doesn't get through nearly as much work as Simo, Horwill or Carter. Is decidedly average in the line-outs. Makes the odd big hit, but Skelton usually makes more of an impact in 30 minutes than Douglas does in 80. I just don't see it.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Anyone who thinks Horwill shouldn't be in the squad is delusional. Jones, Wykes and Neville, aren't better options. Even if Kane Douglas was available I wouldn't pick him. Overrated imo. The only second rower playing in Australia that might push their way into that top 4 is Pots.

BDA - so who are your run-on locks and whose on the pine ATM ?

As said I think Simmons + Carter and Skelton on the bench.

 

[wamberal]

A few pages ago Coleman was being touted as a Wallaby lock. Now he has totally disappeared from view.

What went wrong?

 

[Jets]

A few pages ago Coleman was being touted as a Wallaby lock. Now he has totally disappeared from view.

What went wrong?

Not playing to his potential?

 

[Tomikin]

I think there are 2 issues with Lilo, one the injury of his ankle at the end of 2012, and not getting a pre-season, I dont think his been as bad as everyone feels he has this year but McCabe was that good made it a bad choice.

Also I think he doesn't do well with a strong play maker beside him, in To'omua and Gits before that.

I remember in 2012, Fisher saying something like Lilo has always been a brilliant footballer but tends to fade into the background behind others (e.g. Gits) and that he gave him a spray about never reaching his potential.

I think his kinda fallen back into not being the main man, I really think he should play the NRC as a 10 and be told it's your game to call and play, a good preseason and he will be flying next year.. Hopefully at '10'.

I think Moggy has suffered as well for not having a good preseason, I'm not sure he will ever be Wallaby standard anymore, but hopefully in the off season not injured they can get him some beef and work on his contact.

 

[Braveheart81]

A few pages ago Coleman was being touted as a Wallaby lock. Now he has totally disappeared from view.

What went wrong?

He's got promise but there's at least half a dozen blokes ahead of him right now.

 

[Tomikin]

A few pages ago Coleman was being touted as a Wallaby lock. Now he has totally disappeared from view.

What went wrong?

Not playing .. at all, and the two guys who got their chance, both smashed it out of the park. Carter has really upped his contact work to go with working his butt off. Skelton well is a skillful big man.