Wallaby Watch 2014

[Godfrey]

It might just be Betham because he's been there before in the McKenzie era. Probably.

 

[BDA]

BDA - so who are your run-on locks and whose on the pine ATM ?

As said I think Simmons + Carter and Skelton on the bench.

I think that's the way to go. either Skelton or Horwill on the bench. After watching the tahs game last saturday the idea of Skelton coming off the bench is becoming very attractive. the guy certainly has that ability to turn a game like no other wallaby forward (barring Michael Hooper). Higgers has it in him somewhere but its absent in 2014. Horwill had it at one point.

 

[BDA]

Clearly, because of the stats that DON'T track "doing the dirty work".

If Douglas was that crap, do you honestly think the Tahs would be where they are?

I never said the bloke was crap. he wouldn't look out of place in the squad. I was simply responding to Fatprop's comment that was 'near the best lock in the country'. Without a doubt the tahs players are pretty much all in good form this season, and that includes Douglas. At the same time, when i look at that Tahs pack Douglas is not the stand out forward. In fact, he's not even the stand out lock. Arguably Pots AND Skelton have both been better impact players for the tahs. His role for the tahs is as more of a workhorse, but as a workhorse the stats will show that he doesn't get through the amount of work that Simo, Horwil or Carter do.

The fact that the tahs line-out is poor is not helping his cause. Simo, Carter and Horwill are all very strong in that area.

I certainly wouldn't remove Skelton from the squad for Douglas. There would be an argument that, on form, Douglas should get the nod ahead of horwill, but again my presonal view is that u'd still go with Horwill for his leadership, experience and strong set piece.

 

[qwerty51]

No point discussing Douglas but yes even if he could be selected he wouldn't be in the 23.

 

[BDA]

Betham's choice highlights a bit of a shortage of depth at wing ATM. No disrespect to Betham, but hopefully we don't need to use him during the rugby championship.

I will say tho, i remember him crying during the anthem on his debut. The guy definitely has the passion so I think he's a good addition to the training squad.

 

[Braveheart81]

If Alofa Alofa wasn't heading to France, I wonder if he'd have received the call up? You'd have to think he would have been a chance.

Robbie Coleman or Tom English are probably the next cabs off the rank.

 

[TSR]

A few pages ago Coleman was being touted as a Wallaby lock. Now he has totally disappeared from view.

What went wrong?

To be fair, what actually happened is that I made the comment that I had heard big wraps on him, and from what little I had seen I thought he looked outstanding. I asked for the opinion of others who had seen a lot more of him. I also asked if he had any chance of going on the EOYT. I think the consensus was that he was promising, but not there yet, and not on EOYT. I don't think anyone actually suggested him in the current squad.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Betham's choice highlights a bit of a shortage of depth at wing ATM. No disrespect to Betham, but hopefully we don't need to use him during the rugby championship.

I will say tho, i remember him crying during the anthem on his debut. The guy definitely has the passion so I think he's a good addition to the training squad.

We said that last year too and he performed surprisingly well

 

[KOB1987]

I'd say Betham has been chosen as a development player..a lot has to happen before he even gets considered for the 23 and it's probably safe to assume that at least one player in the 32 man squad will become unavailable by the time Speight is declared fit, hence opening a spot for him to come in back in..

 

[Scrubber2050]

I think that's the way to go. either Skelton or Horwill on the bench. After watching the tahs game last saturday the idea of Skelton coming off the bench is becoming very attractive. the guy certainly has that ability to turn a game like no other wallaby forward (barring Michael Hooper). Higgers has it in him somewhere but its absent in 2014. Horwill had it at one point.

I thought this year would have been a breakout year for Higgers at wallaby level. Doesn't look like it will happen and the opportunity to do so may disappear for him.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If Alofa Alofa wasn't heading to France, I wonder if he'd have received the call up? You'd have to think he would have been a chance.

Robbie Coleman or Tom English are probably the next cabs off the rank.

Robbie is a very good player but much too small for Super rugby let alone test rugby imo. He's no Shane Williams.

 

[Braveheart81]

Robbie is a very good player but much too small for Super rugby let alone test rugby imo. He's no Shane Williams.

I agree.

Where would you go after Betham though?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I thought this year would have been a breakout year for Higgers at wallaby level. Doesn't look like it will happen and the opportunity to do so may disappear for him.

People don't like Higgers 'seagulling' out near the wing, but that is where he is most effective. For comparison, take a good look at how the best No8 in the world plays. Read hardly gets seen in the tight work. He is most often running just inside or outside the widest winger, and that is where he is most dangerous. In fact, if you look at the Crusaders' play this year, the backline has been very ineffectual until the ball gets to Read in the 13 or wing channel. He is their most destructive runner and breaks defenses running out wide. Higgers can do almost the same, but it is not popular with the Aus rugby fraternity. Left to play his natural game, he would still be a very good option for the Wallabies, but I fear it won't happen.

 

[Braveheart81]

People don't like Higgers 'seagulling' out near the wing, but that is where he is most effective. For comparison, take a good look at how the best No8 in the world plays. Read hardly gets seen in the tight work. He is most often running just inside or outside the widest winger, and that is where he is most dangerous. In fact, if you look at the Crusaders' play this year, the backline has been very ineffectual until the ball gets to Read in the 13 or wing channel. He is their most destructive runner and breaks defenses running out wide. Higgers can do almost the same, but it is not popular with the Aus rugby fraternity. Left to play his natural game, he would still be a very good option for the Wallabies, but I fear it won't happen.

I agree that there is this wide ranging sentiment that certain positions need to do certain things. Higgers has copped abuse for it and Hooper gets it on a weekly basis no matter how well he plays.

Higgers has certainly been well down on form in 2014 regardless of what he is doing.

Personally, I think it's all about effective involvements whatever you do. If you're a number 8 and you're ranging wide and causing damage, the other team needs to adjust to that and they have to provide the relevant manpower to try and shut that down.

On the flipside, if you're a number 8 and you're standing wide waiting for an opportunity and the ball is never getting there because your forwards are getting smashed and the opposing number 8 is essentially unopposed in the tight, you need to adjust your game so you can have an impact.

It's all about finding that balance between the effectiveness of your involvements and the frequency of them. What you're historically meant to be doing based on your position is only important to a degree in my opinion.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I agree.

Where would you go after Betham though?

Ah. That's difficult. For the Wallabies, and in the absence of Henry, Alofa, Morahan and Shipperley etc, I'd look at RHP or Moggy on the wing in front of Robbie. At the Brumbies, I always thought we were better served by Rathbone, and I, for one, am disappointed he has called it a day. I also thought a player like Stephan van der Walt deserved more chances than he was given down here. He would be a very good pick up for the Reds imo.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Higgers seems to be criticised (as others have said) for playing too wide. Also the perception, real or otherwise is that he leaks way too many penalties (when he does get involved in tight)

 

[cyclopath]

Higgers seems to be criticised (as others have said) for playing too wide. Also the perception, real or otherwise is that he leaks way too many penalties (when he does get involved in tight)

I'm pretty sure that the stats back this one up. 30 penalties in 15 appearances @ 2 / game. Highest in the comp.

 

[Braveheart81]

What's more amazing is that Higginbotham has given away 7 more penalties than anyone else in the competition this season.

That's a huge gap to the next person (Fardy on 23).

I don't think it's an exaggeration to suggest that Higgers is well down from his best form in 2014.

 

[hammertimethere]

So do you think the Wallabies should pick the guy playing 2nd grade for UQ because he's playing out of his skin relative to how good he normally is?

Yeah give him a run


Up the heavies

 

[fatprop]

What's more amazing is that Higginbotham has given away 7 more penalties than anyone else in the competition this season.

That's a huge gap to the next person (Fardy on 23).

I don't think it's an exaggeration to suggest that Higgers is well down from his best form in 2014.

Higgers is trying too hard to make things happen so he is stretching the rules too often.

The rebels pigs are not doing enough so he is trying make up the difference