Wallaby Watch 2014

[Penguin]

I can't understand the flack Horwill has copped for his performance. He missed a tackle, but his work around the rucks and mauls was fantastic. Clearing out with real aggression. He needs to remain in the squad for sure. Happy for Jones to start, but Kev deserves to be there for sure.

Horwill is the latest one for the hip kids to hate on. I also don't think big Kev can be seen as an impact player, he either has to start or not be there at all. I think he deserves the chance to start the next two tests.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Further to my previous comment including Carter, Horwill has been the 2nd best line out lock in the squad. If Carter is out now, imagine we're playing the saffers and they're pinning the corners all day.

Simmo goes down, how you think we're gonna fair with a line out consisting of Skelton, jones, Palu and Fardy against mayfield and co?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Horwill is the latest one for the hip kids to hate on. I also don't think big Kev can be seen as an impact player, he either has to start or not be there at all. I think he deserves the chance to start the next two tests.

Anybody who is an "impact" player likely isn't a great fundamental lock. We need subs who can do their sole job too.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Are you joking Barbarian? Moore was on the field for about 10mins of game play. It's hard to judge a Captain over one game let alone 10mins.

Barbar caught a big one.

Squeaky was on the oval for 5 min 5 sec, but was injured at about 2 min 30 sec.

Another way of looking at his Captaincy legacy is that he bravely played almost 1/2 his reign as Captain with a Season Ending injury.

In the time as Captain, his referee management was impeccable. He bravely told Mr Joubert "Heads" when asked, and "We'll take the kick off thanks". Mr Joubert granted 100% of Moore's requests. Joubers was eating out of his hands.

 

[TOCC]

Ive said it before, but il say it again since people keep pushing the idea.

Skelton is a potential liability, its easy to say he can come off the bench and be used as an impact player. But what happens if one of our starting locks is injured in the first 5mins like Moore was. We are then stuck with Skelton playing 75min when his fitness level see him barely playing 60min at Super Rugby level... Including Skelton in the match day 23 might be an enticing concept for his impact ability, but in terms of balance for the squad his inclusion throws up a few issues.

Alternatively you look at someone like Luke Jones, he is an 80min player and he can also play blindside flanker if needed. Does he provide the 'impact' that Skelton provides, probably not but he provides greater flexibility and redundancy to the team.

 

[Pete King]

Anybody knocking Horwill's performance, and performances as pedestrian, useless, etc. clearly doesn't understand the concept of balance in a pack, or what the locks role is.

I'd be certain the same people called for Skelton or jones over Carter.

Sometimes the players you notice more aren't necessarily the best. As a lock that's especially true. In the wallabies for jones and Skelton to employ their impact running, a better running back rower would need to do their "shitter" work.

I'd go as far to say that neither of those players have shown anything to indicate they are test LOCKS.

They've both shown great potential, and in Jones' case consistency. But neither have done it doing the unglamorous they need to for the wallabies.

No I was happy to see carter his work is dynamic and aggressive at the breakdown. Much in the mould of horwill a few years back. But can u deny he is not that same player???? Watch the tape, watch him closely, oh and take your Queensland googles off.

 

[Pete King]

Ive said it before, but il say it again since people keep pushing the idea.

Skelton is a potential liability, its easy to say he can come off the bench and be used as an impact player. But what happens if one of our starting locks is injured in the first 5mins like Moore was. We are then stuck with Skelton playing 75min when his fitness level see him barely playing 60min at Super Rugby level. Including Skelton in the match day 23 might be an enticing concept for his impact ability, but in terms of balance for the squad his inclusion throws up a few issues.

Alternatively you look at someone like Luke Jones, he is an 80min player and he can also play blindside flanker if needed. Does he provide the 'impact' that Skelton provides, probably not but he provides greater flexibility and redundancy to the team.

We have the luxury of having fardy at 6 who in the case you mentioned for injury could play in the row and either MCallman or Higgers to the backrow.

 

[Pfitzy]

I'd put Howill into the starting lineup, and Jones on the bench. Hopefully away from the captaincy, and playing with Simmons, he can find some form. If he's poo, yank him at halftime for Jones.

Skelton might have to miss out this series - while his beast-like capabilities are well known, Test rugby fitness is a step up.

As a balance to that - have a look at ALL the forwards puffing in the early stages of the second half. There were a couple of periods where the ball stayed in play for 3-4 minutes and it took a toll.

 

[Bowside]

Biggest worry with Skelton isn't so much his fitness levels but whether he is quick enough for test rugby.

There is a potentially huge advantage in having a lock like Skelton, and the next game would be the perfect place for him to make his debut; But I think Jones should as well, and I don't think you can drop Horwill when there are so few experienced players in the 23.

Losing the next game, to this french side, would be a total and utter disaster.

 

[Bowside]

How did we rate McCalmans efforts?

I thought he did a lot of work but again I question his impact. Especially when compared to that of Kaino and Morgan in the game across the tasman. These are blokes he needs to be better than if the Wallabies are going to go all the way.

 

[Pfitzy]

Biggest worry with Skelton isn't so much his fitness levels but whether he is quick enough for test rugby.

That is a good angle to think about - I think he is when we have the ball, but maybe not in general play off the ball. One of his issues is still running a little upright which the French will love.

Link and Cheika have similar game plans in that they want to bash the opposition up before changing the point of attack. But Link probably needs a little more mobility.

Losing the next game, to this french side, would be a total and utter disaster.

I think we're in for a French side who had their pride badly stung, and if we win next week we can throw the new boys in for real

 

[Richo]

Anybody knocking Horwill's performance, and performances as pedestrian, useless, etc. clearly doesn't understand the concept of balance in a pack, or what the locks role is.

Palu Syndrome: a fan's inability to clearly see the number on a guy's back, leading to accusations of incompetence when in fact the number is obscured by constantly cleaning out rucks. Experienced by fans in inverse proportion to the respect accorded the player by other players, as measured by teammate votes for awards such as the John Eales Medal.

 

[emuarse]

A real blow, though I wonder if he will come back as captain. In the time he played I thought the team looked a bit directionless, and his ref management was questionable, don't think he said a word to Joubert the whole time he was on.
.

Are your talking about the first minute he was on, or the second minute, just before he went off.

 

[emuarse]

If playing test rugby was a qualification there wouldn't BE a fucking forum.

So pull YOUR fucking head in and stop acting like a gibbering dickhead.

Hand bags at 50 paces - no swinging below the skirt

 

[barbarian]

Are your talking about the first minute he was on, or the second minute, just before he went off.

Not so much the first minute as the first 50-55 seconds.

Is this joke getting tired yet?
.

 

[emuarse]

Ive said it before, but il say it again since people keep pushing the idea.

Skelton is a potential liability, its easy to say he can come off the bench and be used as an impact player. But what happens if one of our starting locks is injured in the first 5mins like Moore was. We are then stuck with Skelton playing 75min when his fitness level see him barely playing 60min at Super Rugby level. Including Skelton in the match day 23 might be an enticing concept for his impact ability, but in terms of balance for the squad his inclusion throws up a few issues.

Alternatively you look at someone like Luke Jones, he is an 80min player and he can also play blindside flanker if needed. Does he provide the 'impact' that Skelton provides, probably not but he provides greater flexibility and redundancy to the team.

I agree with your summation of the locks here , TOCC.
Skelton is in the full squad as a cadet, learning the semi-dark skills of the trade, and to encourage him on as he really does have long term potential.
Between the remaining two French tests, the Rugby Championship, and the End of Year Spring tour there are 12 games at high intensity.
The Wallabies do need back up locks as Carter's injury is already proving. I see a strong possibility that all the locks in the squad will get game time, on more than one occasion.
Skelton and Jones need to learn the calls and the channels etc, as has Carter. Even though Carter had a fucked ankle for 70 minutes plus he wasn't going to capitulate his position and give another sucker a break. Thats the mongrel and determination I LIKE TO SEE of my country's test team.

 

[cyclopath]

Not so much the first minute as the first 50-55 seconds.

Is this joke getting tired yet?
.

Fuck, was this a joke??

 

[Train Without a Station]

I don't see how you can play Skelton over anybody else in the squad really. In the case of another injury as a 3rd choice option that's a different story and I'm sure he would be adequate, but he's all tip and no iceberg compared to the other 3 options right now.

 

[barbarian]

Fuck, was this a joke??

I think my entire contribution on this forum has been a big joke actually. Sometimes I wonder what it has all been for. What a waste of my fucking life.......

 

[Dumbledore]

Anybody knocking Horwill's performance, and performances as pedestrian, useless, etc. clearly doesn't understand the concept of balance in a pack, or what the locks role is.

I'd be certain the same people called for Skelton or jones over Carter.

Sometimes the players you notice more aren't necessarily the best. As a lock that's especially true. In the wallabies for jones and Skelton to employ their impact running, a better running back rower would need to do their "shitter" work.

I'd go as far to say that neither of those players have shown anything to indicate they are test LOCKS.

They've both shown great potential, and in Jones' case consistency. But neither have done it doing the unglamorous they need to for the wallabies.

This is the first year Jones has played with anything resembling width. Anyone who's even paid cursory attention to him over the last couple of years could tell you that criticising him for not doing the 'unglamorous' work is completely ridiculous. Clearly under coaching instruction he starts playing wider, gets noticed by people outside of Melbourne, and then gets criticised for not doing the tight stuff. You just can't win sometimes.

Still, I don't think he's quite big enough to play as a TH lock at Test level. I'd probably give Horwill the start, see how he goes over 40-50 minutes, then give Jones a decent crack at things and see what he's about. His future at this level is at 6 IMO. He's a touch shorter and heavier than Matt Cockbain, but plays a pretty similar game. Obviously Fardy is clearly the top dog there at the moment, but Jones is still very young.