Wallaby Locks - The Future
- Thread starter Bowside
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Highlander35
Steve Williams (59)
He's too good with his head in the tightheads arse to shift to the backrow. It sucks, but unless you can convince big bro to play in Melbourne as well, or send a Douglas, an Arnold or a whatsisface at the Force to pack down alongside Jones, he's not gonna shift.
chasmac
Alex Ross (28)
Hell West & Crooked
Alex Ross (28)
Its a nice story - But I think it had alot more to do with keeping a highly lucrative 'ticket' at the Mines - and an income that was probably significantly larger than what Rugby could then offer - and for a good deal longer period of time...
Certainly seems more likely - but Good Luck to him - each to their own.
Beer Baron
Phil Hardcastle (33)
I don't get the fascination with people wanting second rows to be nothing less that 7''4. The majority of line the defence is nowhere near. I think speed and accuracy are much more important. Shorter jumpers can easily be accommodated if done crisply. Most of the time defence is only half way up at the time the offence catches the ball (and rArely at full stretch). There is a limit to this but to say hit is the be all and end all I don't think is true, esp. If your the second jumper.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
The obsession with height is the same as that with the weight of players in the backline. It seems to blind people to all other factors instead of being used as a point of difference and tie breaker between otherwise equally skilled options.
Take Basteraud for example, I don't see him as anywhere near the top two 12s for France, but they have this fixation on his size despite the fact he is obviously unfit, slow as a wet weekend and has the evasive skills of a King Tiger Tank.
There have been many top class locks that haven't broken the 2m mark and speed off the ground will trump height if the later isn't that skilled.
In the maul defence from lineout Mumm is far better than either Simmons or Horwill and it is technique. Douglas is good in power stakes but doesn't seem to slide through like Mumm, and is outpowered by Big Wil.
Skill balance is essential IMO in the second row and height a secondary consideration to actual ability to use that body.
Take Basteraud for example, I don't see him as anywhere near the top two 12s for France, but they have this fixation on his size despite the fact he is obviously unfit, slow as a wet weekend and has the evasive skills of a King Tiger Tank.
There have been many top class locks that haven't broken the 2m mark and speed off the ground will trump height if the later isn't that skilled.
In the maul defence from lineout Mumm is far better than either Simmons or Horwill and it is technique. Douglas is good in power stakes but doesn't seem to slide through like Mumm, and is outpowered by Big Wil.
Skill balance is essential IMO in the second row and height a secondary consideration to actual ability to use that body.
Who has an obsession with height?
Has this discussion only come about because someone said Timani is too short to play lock at test level?
The argument against Timani would be that he has no lineout capability and doesn't offer enough otherwise to be a test lock, especially when he has the mobility to play in the back row.
1.93 would just be tall enough to play lock at test level but you'd have to be an excellent lineout operator.
Has this discussion only come about because someone said Timani is too short to play lock at test level?
The argument against Timani would be that he has no lineout capability and doesn't offer enough otherwise to be a test lock, especially when he has the mobility to play in the back row.
1.93 would just be tall enough to play lock at test level but you'd have to be an excellent lineout operator.
pjm
Billy Sheehan (19)
I'd take a 193cm good player over a 200cm bad player but if the 200cm player is good I'd take him.
It's not just about the player being a good lineout operator, it's about physics with the ball coming from the Hooker to the jumper. The ball has to travel 7cm shorter throughout its entirety to hit a 193cm player vs a 200cm player. That gives opposition jumping at the front a much greater advantage in grabbing it if he is also 200cm.
It's not just about the player being a good lineout operator, it's about physics with the ball coming from the Hooker to the jumper. The ball has to travel 7cm shorter throughout its entirety to hit a 193cm player vs a 200cm player. That gives opposition jumping at the front a much greater advantage in grabbing it if he is also 200cm.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
What about on the opposition throw, when they have the advantage of timing and placement?
Is anybody seriously suggesting that height is not a useful asset when defending against the throw?
We're only talking about a few centimetres here though.
Of course height is an asset but so is skill, speed, agility and ball skills. It's hard to say that one is more important than another, particularly when they are only marginal differences.
It's not like we're talking about 1.8m locks.
kiap
Steve Williams (59)
Thing is, it's more than just "a few cm". More like 10 cm against the best sides:
De Jager 2.06
Etzebeth 2.04
Whitelock 2.03
Retallick 2.04
I reckon 4 inches is significant.
Yeah, sure agility, speed, jumping ability and ball skills are important. But I dunno whether Lopeti Timani has special talents there anyway. Certainly wouldn't match someone like Whitelock for that.
Essentially if he was picked as a lock, he'd be a Brad Thorn type to add power in the scrum and an enforcing physicality. You'd sacrifice something in the lineout. (We've already been doing that with a 6'8" non jumper, and Timani might even be better than him in the scrum).
But there are also some good genuine locks coming through in Enever, Coleman, Arnold, et al.
De Jager 2.06
Etzebeth 2.04
Whitelock 2.03
Retallick 2.04
I reckon 4 inches is significant.
Yeah, sure agility, speed, jumping ability and ball skills are important. But I dunno whether Lopeti Timani has special talents there anyway. Certainly wouldn't match someone like Whitelock for that.
Essentially if he was picked as a lock, he'd be a Brad Thorn type to add power in the scrum and an enforcing physicality. You'd sacrifice something in the lineout. (We've already been doing that with a 6'8" non jumper, and Timani might even be better than him in the scrum).
But there are also some good genuine locks coming through in Enever, Coleman, Arnold, et al.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Timani has played well at lock for the Rebels but he strikes me more as an eight than anything, unless you sacrifice a jumper in the second row and have Keiren Read in your back row.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
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