Wallaby Locks - The Future

[Ruggo]

I would have said "the rougher details" but I know what you mean.

Give me a "shorter" tough guy in the second row of average bulk, like Brard Thorn, every day of the week rather than a big boofhead.

Thorn wasn't bigger than the average test lock but he was strong and played bigger than the scales said. Maybe he wasn't that skilled using the ball or dodging tacklers but he could run over them and dominated opponents himself when he tackled them.

You don't need a whole pack of players who are Brad Thorn types in their position, because you need a bit of balance, and also technical nous, around the pack, but, since this is the lock thread, one of the two should have the attributes to be an enforcer and be a strong scrummager supporting the THP at shove time.

But where are they?
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I know you have compared McDurling to him in the past Lee. I know little about him but hope he can stay fit so I can get a look.

As for shorter tough guy lock in Australia, I think of Mark Connors in his day. (I know Eales normally packed the TH side though.)

The Lock in Australia I see much promise in is Sam Carter. I wouldn't say he is anything flash but that's not what I want in a lock.

 

[Lee Grant]

I know you have compared McDurling to him in the past Lee. I know little about him but hope he can stay fit so I can get a look.

(I know Eales normally packed the TH side though.)
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Did I say that about about McDurling? The memory fades - I probably mentioned his being a Thorn type at the schools or club level.

The TH lock was not relevant in Eales' time as the power hit really hit its straps about 8 years ago and that's roughly when I started mentioning it.

The power hit created a need to support the THP who copped it on both shoulders. Now that the hit has been defused it has become a power shove as the legs drive, the loose bind becomes tight in the engagement and the light pressure on shoulders/necks, if any, becomes extreme.

If they don't do away with the "Yes 9" command which enables packs to anticipate the put-in, the power shove will have some of the malign effects of the power hit.

Whatever - there will always be a need now for a strong TH lock: which was not so obvious as when Eales was playing. I can't recall anybody talking about a tighthead lock at that time.

I don't think that it will ever go back to the days before professional rugby, let alone the situation in the 1960s and 70s. Present-day players have been brought up on the power hit and will always want to keep as much of it in the engagement as they can get away with.

But I digress.
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[tranquility]

One of my all-time favourites is Steve Merrick.

When he was asked why he gave up his chance to earn money playing rugby he said he didn't want to live in the 'big smoke'.

He said he wanted to live in a place where he could play cricket in the streets and didn't have to move the stumps all the time because of passing cars.
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Brilliant.

 

[Lindommer]

You are getting Rory Walton confused with Rory Arnold. Also, when Arnold appealed his ban the appeal was upheld.

Sharpie's spiritual successor? Another strapping lad born in the sporting capital of the western world, Wagga Wagga. C'mon you coaches, one of you sign him up.

 

[daz]

You don't have to be from Roma to be from the country !

Oh, they are from the country all right. Do the fine citizens of Roma still think Joh Bielke-Peterson is the Qld boss?

 

[Gnostic]

I would have said "the rougher details" but I know what you mean.

Give me a "shorter" tough guy in the second row of average bulk, like Brard Thorn, every day of the week rather than a big boofhead.

Thorn wasn't bigger than the average test lock but he was strong and played bigger than the scales said. Maybe he wasn't that skilled using the ball or dodging tacklers but he could run over them and dominated opponents himself when he tackled them.

You don't need a whole pack of players who are Brad Thorn types in their position, because you need a bit of balance, and also technical nous, around the pack, but, since this is the lock thread, one of the two should have the attributes to be an enforcer and be a strong scrummager supporting the THP at shove time.

But where are they?
.

A great example of balance was Giffen in the second row of the Brumbies and Finnegan at 6. The other locking position could then be filled by some solid but unspectacular players as Giffen filled the technical skill set and Finnegan the brute force "boof" factor. Think of the various partners that Giffen had in the second row and how well that team worked as a whole.

 

[Lee Grant]

A great example of balance was Giffen in the second row of the Brumbies and Finnegan at 6. The other locking position could then be filled by some solid but unspectacular players as Giffen filled the technical skill set and Finnegan the brute force "boof" factor.

Giffin was one the most under-rated Aussie players in the professional era. Maybe that was because, at the Wallaby level, he was outshone by one of the greatest locks to wear the gold jersey—not that that would worry him.

Finegan and he provided a good balance for the Brumbies, as you say Gnostic, but Finegan lacked the the engine and the focus to be rated higher at the international level.

It would be interesting to see Giffin and Eales playing today at the right age to do so, and I wonder how they would go with the modern test scrum.
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[Gnostic]

Agree Lee. It would be very interesting. I do however think that Eales and Giffen were perhaps out of the same mould and the combo might not work as well as some would think. Certainly not without somebody like Finnegan, Cockbain, Willie O, Tabua etc at 6 or 8 to really put in defensive starch and running metres in traffic. I see the Eales pairing firstly with McCall and then with Garrick Morgan as similar in balance to that of Giffen/Finnegan.

If Mowen is retained at 6 for the Wallabies in the medium term with Higgers at 8 I could certainly see a place for a non lineout lock as this would not compromise the balance of the pack.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Gee whiskers, after last night you would have to think roll on the future, because there are some real issues with the here and now.

We were up against an aggressive mob of Saffers who were not prepared to give an inch, but that is no reason to be largely absent. Even when we were 8 piggies vs 7 we seemed to struggle. Can the next generation come soon enough?

European tour will be a good time to start the process.

 

[No4918]

When Higgers, Pocock and Palu to a lesser extent (he is not getting yonger) are back it will be easier. I think how much their aggression is being missed can not be downplayed enough.

Horwill, Fardy, Carter, Pyle and Timani (if he stays) are the way forward.

 

[Dctarget]

Living in the future can give some nice benefits, namely hindsight.

Interesting to see that at the creation of this thread Douglas and Simmons were the two incumbents but people were pretty unhappy with them. Suggestions to replace them were; Pyle, Timani, Horwill, Neville and even Fardy.

Douglas and Simmons are the best Australia have right now, they're young, keep persisting with them and by 2015 they could be world class players.

 

[TOCC]

Blokes like Blake Enever are the ones we should be talking about in here.

Sure he isn't even playing super rugby regularly yet, but he is a raw boned massive man that looks like a bikie, and plays like one too. Rory Walton, over at the Force is another one too. Big country boys ready to rip in. Not mollycoddled debating captains who played rugby when they weren't rowing, proper hard-boned blokes, especially when they haven't taken the traditional rugby pathways.

Also, that bloke who bit that Saffa in the currie cup - let's get him home too.

Tranquility made a good prediction, and i think its slowly starting to come to fruition.
Blake Enever, Rory Walton and Rory Arnold..

Wouldn't it be strange to have Rory Walton and Rory Arnold as the starting locks..

 

[Lindommer]

A lot of blokes here hold high hopes for Rory Arnold, I'm one of them. Along with Luke Jones and Adam Coleman I hope and pray they get the opportunities to develop into good, test level second-rowers. Allied with the return of both Mumm and Douglas, the maturing of Simmons and the gradual improvements of Carter and Skelton our locking stocks are looking good ATM. The one I'd dearly like to see wearing gold next year's Coleman, he looks like he could be a hard-nosed enforcer in the Brad Thorn mould.

 

[wamberal]

Lopeti Timani has been bashing the opposition in the NRC.

 

[Forcefield]

Me too, Lindommer, me too. Its tough for Super Rugby squads. We need effectively 20 second rowers across the 5 franchises. Plus guys on the periphery because locks often pick up injuries. I guess thats one of the great things about the NRC. Speeding up the development of guys like Corey Thomas, Matt Phillip, RHP, etc.

 

[saulityvi]

Lopeti Timani has been bashing the opposition in the NRC.

Is he playing lock this season?

 

[RugbyReg]

he played lock in the last game v NSW Country and was very good.

I think it's developing into one our depth positons.

Brumbies well served with Arnold, Enever and Staniforth.

Reds with Simmons, Douglas and Neville.

Tahs will have some struggles but Lousi has looked promising in the NRC and I like Matt Philip. Skelton, Mumm and Dennis likely starting options is still a damn good position to be in.

Rebs have options with Jones and Timani obviously, then Cummins and Jeffries.

Force have Coleman, Mafi (not Aussie qualified) and Walton.

Surely missed some as well. Hyne and Moore, from Brisbane City have shown potential too.

 

[Brumby Runner]

he played lock in the last game v NSW Country and was very good.

I think it's developing into one our depth positons.

Brumbies well served with Arnold, Enever and Staniforth.

Reds with Simmons, Douglas and Neville.

Tahs will have some struggles but Lousi has looked promising in the NRC and I like Matt Philip. Skelton, Mumm and Dennis likely starting options is still a damn good position to be in.

Rebs have options with Jones and Timani obviously, then Cummins and Jeffries.

Force have Coleman, Mafi (not Aussie qualified) and Walton.

Surely missed some as well. Hyne and Moore, from Brisbane City have shown potential too.

Sam Carter?

 

[saulityvi]

What do you think @RugbyReg was the talk in these forums about Timani shifting to back row just punters taking a punt or is there any sense behind it?

I always thought he looks like a backrower playing at lock but what do I know

 

[Viking]

What do you think @RugbyReg was the talk in these forums about Timani shifting to back row just punters taking a punt or is there any sense behind it?

I always thought he looks like a backrower playing at lock but what do I know

I always thought he played most of his rugby in the backrow. Would be great if could play more lock though, he would be a great style of player to challenge Douglas as the enforcer type lock. Not sure what his line-out skills are like though?

Don't think he should be a backrower as we already got a load of them coming through in Vaea, McMahon, Butler, Gill, combined with our world-class incumbents.