Wallaby Coach after Joe

[Tomthumb]

Hmm not sure it’s that simple mate. In theory this “snake” would have many heads - Waugh, Herbert, Horne, selected coach and consultant. As long as everyone pulls together it will work.

The players need one guy that runs it, Otherwise every call Kiss makes they will be wondering if it’s actually from him or from Joe Schmidt

you need to empower the coach and back him to the hilt. Otherwise why hire him? Coaches have egos just like anyone else. This is basically saying “hey we are hiring you, but we don’t fully trust you so we are giving the previous coach oversight over everything”

No coach would like that, because Joe Schmidt isn’t the one that’s going to be blamed if they lose

 

[Wilson]

That is a good point, but I feel like there is a common agreement and style within Bok rugby. They’ve all got the same mentality in regards to their coaching philosophy because rugby is in their DNA.

Not quite the same here.

Which is potentially the argument for Kiss and the one reason he steps ahead of the other local candidates - he and Schmidt have a well established working relationship going back over a decade and by all accounts work in similar ways with a shared style.

A lot depends on how it shakes out, but I'm definitely not going to jump at the term "oversight" coming in 3rd hand (no knocking you or your source, it's just a long way from an official description and may not have been carefully chosen). There's no reason an arrangement like this necessarily has to fail, it all comes down to the execution. It might be a different story if we had well credentialed candidates banging down the door, but it really doesn't look like we do.

 

[Major Tom]

The players need one guy that runs it, Otherwise every call Kiss makes they will be wondering if it’s actually from him or from Joe Schmidt

you need to empower the coach and back him to the hilt. Otherwise why hire him? Coaches have egos just like anyone else. This is basically saying “hey we are hiring you, but we don’t fully trust you so we are giving the previous coach oversight over everything”

No coach would like that, because Joe Schmidt isn’t the one that’s going to be blamed if they lose

I get what you’re saying. But I would like to think Schmidt would be just like another assistant coach for Kiss or whoever they go with. I don’t think Joe is the type of guy to over play his hand but I could be wrong. His mission brief would be just to be a sounding board.

 

[PhilClinton]

The players need one guy that runs it, Otherwise every call Kiss makes they will be wondering if it’s actually from him or from Joe Schmidt

you need to empower the coach and back him to the hilt. Otherwise why hire him? Coaches have egos just like anyone else. This is basically saying “hey we are hiring you, but we don’t fully trust you so we are giving the previous coach oversight over everything”

No coach would like that, because Joe Schmidt isn’t the one that’s going to be blamed if they lose

That is an interesting point and it’s probably the reason why I really dislike the optics of consultants or DoRs, particularly those who’ve been the coach previously and had success.

If Schmidt stays involved in a relatively ‘hands on’ capacity, the reality is if the team is winning it’ll likely be viewed as a continuation of the systems he put in place and his influence.

Whereas if the team starts to lose, you can already see the headlines about how Coach XYZ has taken Schmidt’s winning formula and botched it or isn’t listening.

I think it’s a lose lose situation for the new coach if Schmidt is heavily involved ongoing,

 

[dru]

If RA/WBs fuck over another Reds HC, I'm really done. The sporting world is large and I don't need to cope with shite from an organisation that is supposedly to support the sport.

Les, just tell them to fuck off.

 

[Crashy]

strong

 

[dru]

strong

Look if Les goes through and we have some kind of reasonable next step (for the Reds), I don't know.

It has been years, really since Link, that we (Reds) had an HC that looked like being able to do something. And (we look to be dropped backwards) all because the RA are in a bind from their own management. Again.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Look if Les goes through and we have some kind of reasonable next step, I don't know.

It has been years, really since Link, that we had an HC that looked like being able to do something. And all because the RA are in a bind from their own management. Again.

How is that RAs fault since Link? He was the one that put the heat on RA not the other way around. He announced he was leaving his DOR role. Graham was the HC that last season (in name only I agree). They made all the calls with OConnor, Stiles, Thorn etc

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

It's also worth noting Kiss fell into their lap. If London Irish don't fold he doesn't come down here.

 

[dru]

How is that RAs fault since Link? He was the one that put the heat on RA not the other way around. He announced he was leaving his DOR role. Graham was the HC that last season (in name only I agree). They made all the calls with OConnor, Stiles, Thorn etc

Hmm, you might not see it but you are building a strawman. i'm not saying RA is responsible since Link. I'm saying we have been working hard since Link to have a decent arrangement with a decent HC. Now that we are here, RA have every apparent intention of fucking it up.

 

[Adam84]

If RA/WBs fuck over another Reds HC, I'm really done. The sporting world is large and I don't need to cope with shite from an organisation that is supposedly to support the sport.

Les, just tell them to fuck off.

Realistically these decisions wont be made without QRU informed/consulted to some degree, especially as Herbert filling RA Chairman role which was a result of QRU leading the revolve against Hamish..RA and QRU aren’t that seperate as a result

 

[dru]

Realistically these decisions wont be made without QRU informed/consulted to some degree, especially as Herbert filling RA Chairman role which was a result of QRU leading the revolve against Hamish..RA and QRU aren’t that seperate as a result

Yeah, that is irritating, but Adam, they are separate enough.

 

[Adam84]

I won’t go as far as to call Herbert a QRU proxy, but he worked in QRU management for almost a decade, he was a QRU nominee for the RA board and his predecessor was ousted in a vote of no confidence instigated by the QRU. Just like Waugh is there representing NSW interests, Dan is QLD.

Herbert doesn’t answer to QRU, but Im certain any move for Kiss wouldn’t be made without QRU consultation & blessing

 

[Derpus]

I am expecting the media release to sound like either:

- SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) coach announced as the new Wallabies coach and specific call out that Schmidt will remain a consultant through till end of RWC 2027. Sounds like this is RA and Schmidt preference.

- External coach announced with either no specific mention of Schmidt or that he may be available to consult post-BIL. Sounds like RA would be upsetting ‘their man’ if they went this way now.

Honestly - as good a coach as Schmidt is I don't think we should be limiting our options to keep him on in some consulting role...

 

[Derpus]

Look, I'm not saying it's the ideal setup (there's a reason it's not the norm), but it absolutely can and has worked at the highest level.
View attachment 21270

Pfft Nienaber doesn't coach shit. All of Saffa rugby is Erasmus and you can't really argue with the results. The rugby is unwatchable and he's a fucking fluffybunny but the bloke is a genius.

Not equivalent.

 

[Yoda]

What an absolute colossal cock up it is that we sacked Rennie to get EJ (Eddie Jones) (Eddie Jones), coach our worst RWC ever, then in turn get a coach who'll leave us coachless two seasons out of the most important RWC performance in 30 years.

Two words….. Hamish McLennan.

 

[Yoda]

The coach needs to be the head of the snake for it to work. The coach needs to have (or be perceived) to have autonomy over decisions. This idea doesn’t work

This just feels like Schmidt wanting his cake and eating it too. Either commit to being the coach or let the next man up have the job

Or… Rugby Australia think Schmidt is some Coach God that just HAS to be retained at any cost. I agree, the Head coach should be the man and not have to go running to GOD to see if he agrees. Schmidt has been great, don’t get me wrong, but he’s either in or out in my opinion.

 

[KOB1987]

We are in a bit of a weird situation in that it's mid cycle and we are heading into a home world cup without a coach. I'd say that RA figured that Schmidt was easily the best available option at the time and took a punt that if he could turn the side around and win the Lions series (or at least put in a bold performance) that he would stick around until the 2027 RWC. I agree that heading into a home world cup is not the time to appoint an apprentice to a foreign based head, but nor is it the time to throw a promising but underqualified provincial coach into the cauldron. I've said this before, considering there are literally no international coaches available (ex Cheika) perhaps the best option is a bit of both whereby Joe stays involved, and one of the provincial coaches is groomed into the longer term gig - said candidate calls the shots but Joe is involved in the decision making.

 

[Quicktapsonly]

Do all the Reds coaches follow Kiss if he gets appointed? Aren’t a large portion of them also from London Irish?

 

[PhilClinton]

Do all the Reds coaches follow Kiss if he gets appointed? Aren’t a large portion of them also from London Irish?

I think it’s all but confirmed that Schmidt and Cron are a package so they’ll both be gone and I’m guessing at that point the HC starts appointing their own staff. Albeit as many have mentioned, Zane Hilton probably gets offered the Reds HC role if he wants it.