Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[No4918]

I'm already bored with the 'if we lose a hooker it's a catastrophe' argument. There's clearly a contingency plan in place that I'm sure will prove to be completely adequate if it's required in the next 3 games. As previously mentioned, by the time we play England we will have James Hanson in the squad. I hope he enjoys his holiday in the French Riviera in the meantime.

I hope he is playing NRC. Could be a couple of months between games if he gets a call up.

 

[KOB1987]

I'm sure he will be and I'm betting he will be the starting 2 v the USA.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Possibly been mentioned already as I haven't read the all the posts since the squad was announced, but two hookers makes no sense risk & reward-wise as the reward is an extra outside back which is a luxury given so many of them play or cover multiple positions.

Therefore either (a) Cheika & co. are nuts or (b) they have a plan, a cunning plan, whereby (this is the cunning bit) no-one needs to start against both Uruguay & Ringinland four days later unless someone gets injured (& how ironic would that be) & for that you need the extra back.

My money's on (b), btw

The flaw in the plan, of course, is if Moore or TPN have to pull out late, as IIRC Moore did v Ireland last WC. I guess Sio (? seem to recall him being a hooker-turned-prop) could cover for TPN vs Uruguay but you'd have to be nervous about him doing so vs Poms. Similar situation with the HB's, Giteau could conceivably cover vs Uruguay but not vs Poms.

 

[fatprop]

On what level has Douglas ever been better then Horwill. He never has.. And his coming back from back surgery and 20 mins rugby.

Genia, I get at one stage was one of if not the best in the world.. But Douglas hasn't shown anything ..

a couple of quotes from Foxsports

Cheika put it simply to Horwill — sensible aggression, hit rucks and mauls, do the basics well.

There was also a hint of an improved ball-carting game which is so important to Cheika’s idea of big-man impact.

Horwill is desperately unlucky to miss out on the World Cup but Cheika has his reasons.

Lack of impact in ball-running and inferior lineout work to Simmons and Mumm ultimately cost Horwill a World Cup spot more than anything.

Horwill broke just three tackles in 13 games for the Reds and didn’t rumble through any in his four Tests of this season while being a minor ball-winning target at the lineout with three takes.

They are measurables.

Douglas has been something of a Cheika love child since he headed to Irish club Leinster last year because he’s yearned to have him back since the day he left.

He is only 20 minutes back from back surgery.

Douglas has been picked on faith to step up to a higher level than his 15 Tests to date.

He has five weeks to hit top fitness and form for the big World Cup pool games.

He has leg drive, lineout acumen, smashes in tackles and goes forward.

He’s the lock who has tipped out Horwill and the lock with much to live up to.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/r...om-the-wallabies/story-e6frf4pu-1227493047840

 

[USARugger]

(b) they have a plan, a cunning plan, whereby (this is the cunning bit) no-one needs to start against both Uruguay & Ringinland four days later unless someone gets injured (& how ironic would that be) & for that you need the extra back.

I think this was already proposed a few pages back and by far makes the most sense considering how close together the Uruguay, Fiji, and England games are.

 

[No4918]

a couple of quotes from Foxsports




http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/r...om-the-wallabies/story-e6frf4pu-1227493047840

So he did do those things in SR14. He has never done those things at test level and arguing he has more lineout acumen is a big stretch. Then you get onto current form and there isn't any. Several on here suggested he was going backwards in Ireland when he was not injured. Mumm on the other hand was apparently improving. Doesn't matter how you spin it, dropping one of the more consistent forwards and the best lock from the RC for a player with 20 mins and lots of injuries is a risk.

 

[Scotty]

If Cheicka wants forwards that are good at their core role, play tight and clean out well, then why do we have Skelton.

To me he provides very little upside for a bloke that weakens both our scrum and lineout when he is on the field. I understand trying to have a point of difference but I think we are missing the real point which is that the set piece is very likely to be what makes or breaks us getting out of the group.

And our obvious point of difference is the Pooper. One that puts our best players on the field and one that oppositions aren't looking forward to. Why compromise the ability to do that with a lock that can't yet perform his core role adequately?

 

[KOB1987]

Possibly been mentioned already as I haven't read the all the posts since the squad was announced, but two hookers makes no sense risk & reward-wise as the reward is an extra outside back which is a luxury given so many of them play or cover multiple positions.

Therefore either (a) Cheika & co. are nuts or (b) they have a plan, a cunning plan, whereby (this is the cunning bit) no-one needs to start against both Uruguay & Ringinland four days later unless someone gets injured (& how ironic would that be) & for that you need the extra back.

My money's on (b), btw

The flaw in the plan, of course, is if Moore or TPN have to pull out late, as IIRC Moore did v Ireland last WC. I guess Sio (? seem to recall him being a hooker-turned-prop) could cover for TPN vs Uruguay but you'd have to be nervous about him doing so vs Poms. Similar situation with the HB's, Giteau could conceivably cover vs Uruguay but not vs Poms.

Yep..it means the A team can play v Fiji and then maintain their structure in the training runs leading up to the England game while the B team go out and tackle Uruguay. Injuries aside of course.

The B team of course includes the finishers for the A team. After the Uruguay game the squad reverts to the match day 23 plus 8 in the coat and tie brigade. I'm sure the intention/hope is to draft Hanson in to the later group after Uruguay, and perhaps White too.

 

[Scotty]

Ps I'm also guessing that the McMahon selection is there to have a Mocock or Mooper running in the lesser games. Keeps the double openside feel.

 

[MarkJ]

A lot of people are suggesting that Sio will be the backup hooker - do we really want the bloke that's a fair chance to be the starting loosehead against the Poms spending his time at training learning how to be a hooker rather than practising his real job?

 

[KOB1987]

A lot of people are suggesting that Sio will be the backup hooker - do we really want the bloke that's a fair chance to be the starting loosehead against the Poms spending his time at training learning how to be a hooker rather than practising his real job?

Well Toby Smith isn't just going to stand there and watch the whole time so they may as well kill two birds with one stone.

 

[KOB1987]

Ps I'm also guessing that the McMahon selection is there to have a Mocock or Mooper running in the lesser games. Keeps the double openside feel.

I'm actually thinking it's so that the B team has a starting openside. After Uruguay he will become a backup to the Pooper model which I suspect is going to be instrumental in the plans of stuffing up the Poms' 10 man rugby strategy.

 

[Scotty]

So he did do those things in SR14. He has never done those things at test level and arguing he has more lineout acumen is a big stretch. Then you get onto current form and there isn't any. Several on here suggested he was going backwards in Ireland when he was not injured. Mumm on the other hand was apparently improving. Doesn't matter how you spin it, dropping one of the more consistent forwards and the best lock from the RC for a player with 20 mins and lots of injuries is a risk.

Not just a risk. It is a joke.

Before the RC I would have supported it but Horwill stepped it up and was better than both Douglas and Skelton.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well Toby Smith isn't just going to stand there and watch the whole time so they may as well kill two birds with one stone.

In fairness as far as squad goes Skelton offers a point of difference - yes he has positive and minuses as a player but his size and mobility for a big man to break the gain line does offer some advantages potentially as a bench player when looking for a game breaker to break through tired defences. Whether he deserves bench spot than other lock options open to debate but no point selecting all same type of players who play similarly as you want back up players who play a different role for different occaisions/timing. Hooper and Pocock highlight this and why they combine so well as their points of differences make them an awesome combination.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I hope he is playing NRC. Could be a couple of months between games if he gets a call up.

He is - he is names in Stars starting side for this Saturdays opening NRC game against NH

 

[Tomikin]

a couple of quotes from Foxsports




http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/r...om-the-wallabies/story-e6frf4pu-1227493047840

I know I've read the quotes, James had a poor season at the Reds but an unfit Douglas is a massive risk. His shown nothing in the way of form this year or the class at Test level..

But I'm happy to be proven wrong.. Bring back Bill

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Well I look at where we were last year with a poor EOYT and plummeting down the ranks.

Now we are ranked 3rd, won the Rugby Championship beating boks in close game (winning the close ones is mark of a good team), and also beat the AB's to boot in Sydney. So at simple level I have faith in direction Cheika taking the wallabies and preparing to support his decisions.

From a bigger picture it is overall a good squad Cheika has chosen with a few controversial selections but not earth shattering imo as:
1. We have still selected the two best hookers - the risk is IF one gets injured and an injury that does not rule them out for the whole tournament. Still expect we will see Hansen come in as an injury replacement some time early
2. Horwill yes perhaps hard done by but Mumm showed equally up to the task imo whilst Simmons fit I see a Mumms and Simmons starting combo as ok. Skelton can't jump whilst Douglas yes is the unknown....don't get me wrong prefer Horwill in the squad but Horwill was good in Rugby Championship but was he so far ahead of Mumm as lock...probably not...
3. Phipps offers better faster service than White whilst Genia was once world's best in his position and more stable than white who is too hot and cold for my liking. And Giteau can cover at 9 at a pinch as shown in Rugby Championship.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

He was pretty terrible at 10 in 2013 - getting selected in a position by a coach doesn't make you the best in the position, or the second-best, or third-best..



Anyway, his personal form during Super Rugby this year really wasn't good enough to concretely warrant selection over the guys recently named in the squad.



JOC (James O'Connor) isn't a risk to get picked up by Fiji if he doesn't play against the USA either.

For me JOC (James O'Connor) on his game is a class act and in my wallabies squad but yes his form since returning from Europe has not warranted selection - unfortunately

Personally hope he stays with Australian Rugby as still young bloke who is talented footballer.

I hope we don't go down the path of discussions of his past indiscretions as sure as young bloke he made some mistakes and paid the price - nothing he did was earth shattering and would be good to move on from events of many years ago.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think Groucho and WOB have nailed it. The squad was an attempt to manage the workload of three games in eight days. I still don't agree with it, but concede there is some logic behind it. I hope Hanson will be kept close by, with some other shadow players, in case one of the main guys goes down.

 

[JJJ]

I'm late to the show, but pretty perplexed with everyone else at how light on tight forwards the squad is. I would've thought that would be where you'd want the most cover, especially given all the utility backs we have at our disposal. Maybe Cheiks thinks that, given pool of death, if any of our starting tight forwards goes down the campaign is over anyway. In the quest for points differentials as well as wins there won't be any easy games after USA.