Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Lindommer]

One could easily mount an argument for both Cooper and Foley to either go to the RWC or stay at home.

Cooper: worn a few injuries the last few years affecting his playing time for the Reds, which when he got on the paddock was severely hampered by a shit coach. Probably more upside than Foley but when Quade's bad he's deplorable. I don't think his wide-passing game's what Cheika wants and (cue the screeching arguments) his defence isn't good enough to win a RWC.

Foley: the best 5/8 in Oz for taking the ball to the line. Or was. Bernard's current form is quite concerning, if it continues to tumble it's hard to justify his selection. Let's hope Larkham can identify what's happening here and rectify it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Lindo, why haven't you noted that Foley's defence isn't good enough to win a RWC? I just thought since you felt the need to note that about Cooper despite him having a better tackle completion rate than most 10's this year, then surely the statistically Foley would be labeled with the same stigma.

The problem is also with the perception that "when Cooper's bad, he's deplorable".

When exactly has this been in the last 4 years?

It's the epitome of a double standard. Has played a game in the last 4 years where he has knocked on 3 times, turned the ball of 4 of his 8 runs including passing over the sideline and a no look pass to nobody, getting held up for a maul and get dominantly tackled all whilst kicking for goal at 50%?

Because that's what Matt Giteau did in the first test against SA and nobody described him as deplorable. Many in fact wanted to say he played well.

 

[Groucho]

Groucho I'd be intrigued to know what you thought of it when McKenzie used to drop Cooper back in defence. If wager you probably weren't as complimentary about the tactic

Why would you think that TWAS? I'm a Cooper fan and always have been.

I'm certainly not 'inventing' Cheika's defensive system in order to boost Foley.

Those kinds of provincial fanboi antics are embarrassing from grown adults.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I absolutely do not like it at international level no matter who it's used for. At Super Rugby level you have squad limitations and will need to use players who have weaknesses (like Lance and Lucas at FB with weak running games). It's a good tactic to overcome this.

At test level you have a wider pool to choose from and do not need to pick players who are as weak in some facts.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it's pretty much a fait accompli that both Foley and Cooper will the in the RWC squad.

In fact I'd be surprised if Cheika picks someone else to start at 10 this weekend. To'omua and Giteau will remain sharing the 12 jersey in my opinion.

 

[Ignoto]

At test level you have a wider pool to choose from and do not need to pick players who are as weak in some facts.

When you think of the possible back three candidates, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Speight, Tomane, Folau, Mitchell their kicking game isn't really part of their arsenal. Sure Foley and Cooper might be weaker than those listed in defence, but their ability to return the ball via a kick is probably one of the major factors why they're being dropped back.

 

[Train Without a Station]

When you think of the possible back three candidates, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Speight, Tomane, Folau, Mitchell their kicking game isn't really part of their arsenal. Sure Foley and Cooper might be weaker than those listed in defence, but their ability to return the ball via a kick is probably one of the major factors why they're being dropped back.

When you only look at some yes.

You have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell and JOC (James O'Connor) who all offer good kicking games.

The fact is if you fill your team with weaknesses by choice you need to cover it. The players are there. Now if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell and JOC (James O'Connor) were all injured that's a different story.

 

[Ignoto]

The fact is if you fill your team with weaknesses by choice you need to cover it. The players are there. Now if AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell and JOC (James O'Connor) were all injured that's a different story.

But you're not filling your team with weaknesses though, you're picking on what's the right balance. Just like we won't pick Hooper, Pocock and Gill as our back three. They're all great players in the loose stuff but other areas of our game would suffer if we did.

Realistically speaking, Foley and Cooper haven't been hidden in defence, but there are select instances where they have been shifted around. Similar to the All Blacks with Carter. It's not the end of the world having a player drop back like that at all, much like it doesn't change too much by putting Izzy into first receiver on attack.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But you're not filling your team with weaknesses though, you're picking on what's the right balance. Just like we won't pick Hooper, Pocock and Gill as our back three. They're all great players in the loose stuff but other areas of our game would suffer if we did.

No. We won't pick them because they fit one, maximum two roles. You're lumping the loose forwards into a single type of role, when there are 3 defined roles. That's why you won't select 3 players who all play the same defined role and many were concerned about 2 of them being selected.

A kicking back three player is a role. The All Blacks generally play with two fullbacks in fact. Corey Jane, Ben Smith and now Millner-Skudder have spent time on the wing.

How often in their recent, most successful period have they selected a back 3 including multiple large running options with poor kicking games to face top sides?

On the weekend Cheika actually probably got the back 3 balance very close to right with 2 decent kicking options there.

 

[Groucho]

When you think of the possible back three candidates, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Speight, Tomane, Folau, Mitchell their kicking game isn't really part of their arsenal. Sure Foley and Cooper might be weaker than those listed in defence, but their ability to return the ball via a kick is probably one of the major factors why they're being dropped back.

It's not just return with a kick: it's the option to play a running counterattack.

It certainly isn't just a bandaid for defensive frailties. It's something we're able to play because we have two playmakers.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I still wouldn't have Giteau in my squad. Got the crap knocked out of him in one tackle by a bigger AB and lost the ball, this is going to happen to him in every game in the RWC, opponents are going to line up their biggest back to run at him every play. Scrummie passing was accurate, but painfully slow. Did I read somewhere Matt's scrummie cameo buggered up his legs? AND he crabbed sideways a few times.

I have some misgivings about Giteau as well though imo he played a lot better than expected. But, if the measure for not selecting someone is that he loses the ball when in contact with a larger opposition player, then that would have ruled Beale out many moons ago. Did you notice that he lost the ball in one of his three hit ups last weekend? But I do concur that not all is great (yet) with Matt Giteau.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Don't think the initial squad will include three OSFs, RH. Gill's undoubtedly first cab off the rank if either Hooper or Pocock go down.

I'm not so sure. As replacement for Hooper I have no arguments. But Poey is now our No 8, and I don't see either Gill or McMahon being the replacement there.

 

[Brumby Runner]

In what world has McMahon had a poor season? He played all but 2 games for the Rebels, missing through injury, was a strong third option at lineout time in a team with a terrible throwing hooker and won the players choice award, to back up the U20s captaincy, Rebels rookie of the year, NRC player of the year and a Bronze commonwealth games medal in 2014.

I'm not saying he would be selected ahead of Gill if Pocock and/or Hooper didn't exist as options, but if there's a third openside in the squad, the sheer amount of time he's spent playing as a blindside, along with the fact he's been in the squad for all 3 games so far makes him the obvious and correct choice.

Where does blindside now come into the equation. That spot is covered by Fardy and Mumm. If Poey goes down, we will need anoth No 8, and neither Gill nor McMahon are that player.

 

[Braveheart81]

I definitely agree that Mumm's form has made McMahon's place in the squad tenuous.

If Fardy got injured you'd have to think Mumm would now be picked at 6 before McMahon.

 

[Jagman]

I definitely agree that Mumm's form has made McMahon's place in the squad tenuous.

If Fardy got injured you'd have to think Mumm would now be picked at 6 before McMahon.

Which is why the Wallabies don't need to pick 18 forwards (i.e. 6 backrowers). They only need 17. Which means they can select 14 backs and have proper opposed training without Larkham having to don a "no contact" shirt.

 

[BDA]

I'd say of the wingers, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchell and Horne (if he's fit when the squad is selected) are all on the plane to the RWC.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Mitchell are both very well rounded and both played well against the All Blacks. Both were chosen in some capacity against the Boks and Blacks and will again this week I assume. They are central to the current set up.

Horne is also a favourite of Cheika's for good reason. He's a dominant defender, which seems to be an attribute that Cheika is looking for in this side. plus he is a decent crash ball option. Finally, he has decent versatility and utility value. He has plenty of test experience at 12/13. He's in if fit.

I'm guessing we'll have one more winger. I believe it has to be an out and out finisher, having regard to the other guys we've chosen. Speight looks like to the best option, but if he doesn't play this weekend its hard to pick him.

 

[Brendan Hume]

I'm not so sure. As replacement for Hooper I have no arguments. But Poey is now our No 8, and I don't see either Gill or McMahon being the replacement there.

Putting Pocock into the "8" role is ridiculous - he might be wearing 8 but he's not playing like a conventional 8. If Cheika believes to win the RWC, a hard on the ball, high work rate, hard tackling loose forward is required to play 8 to complement Hooper's slightly wider game then Gill is definitely the replacement if Pocock were injured. Hooper is the most unorthodox of the Aussie forwards, I'm not sure that his skill set is able to be replicated in the group, or if you'd even bother trying, but Gill and McMahon are probably closer than anyone at filling that gap should it happen.

 

[Lindommer]

If Cooper and/or Foley play themselves out of the RWC squad, is there a spot for Leali'ifano?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And they call the School Sporting Scholarship thread the Hotel California thread?

After 300+ pages and 6000+ posts, with some of the usual suspects chalking up well over 100 posts, has anyone changed their minds on the makeuo of the 31 for RWC 15.

Seems the same old arguments and justifications are being played out again and again, with some names being occasionally changed and, for many, there is a remarkable co-relation between a posters current champion for the 31 and the Super Rugby team icon at the top right of their posts.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

If Cooper and/or Foley play themselves out of the RWC squad, is there a spot for Leali'ifano?

I would hope so. Once of them would have to fail pretty badly for that to happen I reckon, however.