Wallabies world cup squad selection

[BDA]

The decision to make Horwill has really made my day! Horwill's captaincy made a big difference to the Reds this year. He was particular outstanding the game against the tahs at Suncorp. He talks to his players, he leads from the front, and has a very good approach to handling the referee, never afraid to voice his opinion in a respectful manner.

That is one of the things our team has been missing. Elsom always lead from the front, but he never really rallied the troops and wasn't good at talking to the ref.

Some have suggested this will actually make Elsom a better player, and it very well could. I don't agree with the speculation that elsom's position is under threat. He is our best number 6 by a fair way. He has a much higher work rate than Higgers. He is a guy you want on the field for the full 80 minutes.

Although I do like the propect of starting Elsom/Palu/Pocock and in the final 25 minutes finish the game with Higgers/Samo/Pocock. exciting!

 

[Gnostic]

Well no one can say that Deans doesn't make some damn tough decisions.

No gits
Elsom no longer captain

:lmao: :

 

[RedsHappy]

Lots of people commending Robbie here - I'm surprised at. He's been in the job for 4 years, with many ups & downs over the course of this period. As far as I knew JON's aims were for him to get the bledisloe back, 3N back & the WC right - a tough ask by anyones standard, but not one which a Wallaby coach shouldn't think is attainable. He's failed on the first 2 & it seems to have been a change tack over the course of the last 2 years that the WC is everything - i.e he's had 4 years to build a squad for the WC & a real specific focus in the last 2. Then, 2 weeks before it starts, he dumps a long standing wallaby squad member and changes the captain - panic button push if you ask me. It may work, it may not. I actually agree with almost all of his squad (bar Giteau inclusion) & its' got a real good chance of lifting Bill. But the whole thing seems simply, fucked. Who gets 2-4 years to build a WC winning squad then changes the captain and drops a key playmaker 2 weeks out from it?

MR, you make many telling, valid points. I have been a critic of what I'd term Deans' reckless and relentless stubbornness over many items of Wallaby selection and policy, and I have critiqued his almost complete unwillingness to ever admit error. Nonetheless, I'll praise any leader for admitting a (serious) mistake, and then decisively rectifying it for the good, even if it's late in the day. My experience has been that often things in an enterprise of any kind start to improve when its management owns up to core problems, and begins fixing them with better solutions. I am hoping that will be the case here.

Plus, I confess to a bit of boy-like utter exuberant delight and disbelief when I saw this change and that emotion made me a little more Robbie-hugging that I am in the hard light of day - I could not believe it at first, then came the pleasure of conviction that it would lead to better things, not a typical sensation arising from my tracking of the Wallabies in recent times.

 

[Lee Grant]

Well said RedsHappy - and particularly happy today.

Major

Agree somewhat: Robbie knew Giteau's negatives a long time ago and if he is dropping him now he should have dropped him for our last EOYT; after all Barnes was on the bench for most tests on that trip. If Cooper had been hurt Barnes could have played 10 and JOC (James O'Connor) or Beale backed him up. We had others to play 12.

I'm not so fussed that Giteau is out of the squad since Barnes is healthy now, and chosen. However I fear that we will miss Giteau's left foot kick in a critical moment in a crunch game.

I never got on the Deans' bandwagon. I was stoked that we got him but said I wouldn't get on it until we showed more consistent results against our key opponents then: the 3N teams and England. He also had to get the Wallabies more consistent during games, indicating improved coaching and selection of squad players, and generally had to get the Wallabies playing better overseas, including in 3N.

When we won against the Blacks in the 2008 3N in Sydney I wavered and posted that I was running alongside the wagon - but I never had occasion to jump on though hoped I could.


We have our timing wrong in selecting coaches methinks. A new coach should be picked for the EOYT following a RWC so the old coach can get a good gig in time. Then by the next RWC the Wallabies will be "his" team. 4 years is long enough to have any national coach unless he has had an outstanding record and that wouldn't necessarily mean winning the RWC, but it would mean increasing the percentage of wins against top 4 teams, and away.

There is some sense now in keeping Deans until 2013 because the Lions are here then, but McKenzie should be his assistant coach for the 2012 EOYT. Link should take over for the 2013 3N, or whatever it is then, as Jones did in 2001 - and he should be told all that right now else we may lose an outstanding candidate.

 

[slydare]

The decision to make Horwill has really made my day! Horwill's captaincy made a big difference to the Reds this year. He was particular outstanding the game against the tahs at Suncorp. He talks to his players, he leads from the front, and has a very good approach to handling the referee, never afraid to voice his opinion in a respectful manner.

That is one of the things our team has been missing. Elsom always lead from the front, but he never really rallied the troops and wasn't good at talking to the ref.

Some have suggested this will actually make Elsom a better player, and it very well could. I don't agree with the speculation that elsom's position is under threat. He is our best number 6 by a fair way. He has a much higher work rate than Higgers. He is a guy you want on the field for the full 80 minutes.

Although I do like the propect of starting Elsom/Palu/Pocock and in the final 25 minutes finish the game with Higgers/Samo/Pocock. exciting!

Agreed - watching our recent games I noticed that even as Rocky's form improved he didn't seem to be doing to job as captain. He seemed to be disconnected from both the refs and the team? Watching the huddles it looked very much like Kev and Sanchez were the ones marshalling the troops. Seems that the communication is not his thing.

If he can bounce back from this we'll be in a good position, a fit and angry Rocky starting in Brisbane would be perfect.

 

[Gnostic]

Come on Scarfie. Several people on here have been whinging and moaning about Deans not making the tough calls and for having the perception of inflexibility and inability to admit when he is wrong.

Then he goes and makes the tough call and suddenly he is being smacked down for rectifying his mistake? The man can't win with some of you lot.

There is a point in a campaign when the tough decisions and background should have already been done and the full commitment was made. Those of us criticising Deans for his selections and pigheadedness also stated that Elsom should have been dropped or stripped of the Captaincy last year (I contend he should never have got it).

This move is fully in keeping with his previous history of selecting his favourites until no further excuses can be found to continue. At least some people don't get converted to true believier status because of a change that should of been made 12 months ago. In fact whilst I am very happy to see Horwill Captain the minute to midnight nature of the change leave me shaking my head that Deans gets any sort of credit at all. He is nothing more than a reactionary manager with very little in the way of solid selection policies and rationale or innovation.

Nothing except consistant performance from the team (not necessarily winning, but performance in mode of play), comprehensible selection in ALL matches and a well reasoned game plan will get my support. The days where I supported Deans appointment to the position he holds ended at the start of 2010 because none of these things have been apparent in his tenure.

 

[Richo]

Nothing except consistant performance from the team (not necessarily winning, but performance in mode of play), comprehensible selection in ALL matches and a well reasoned game plan will get my support. The days where I supported Deans appointment to the position he holds ended at the start of 2010 because none of these things have been apparent in his tenure.

Comprehensible to who? And what is a the point of "performance in mode of play" if it isn't winning?

I've been willing to criticize Deans when I thought he made the wrong choice, so it's only fair that he get credit for making what I think is the right choice, even if it is a tad late.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Nice squad. A bit weird with Palu Samo and McCalman, and no back up for Pocock. (Robinson and Hodgeson)

Pocock is virtually a God though and the only way to injure him is by snapping his leg in half when he isn't looking. So i understand their reasoning.

 

[daz]

.

Nothing except consistant performance from the team (not necessarily winning, but performance in mode of play), .

That sounds very close to something PdV said last weekend, Gnostic.

 

[fatprop]

Rocky's words

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/e...o-e6frf4pu-1226117334096?subcat=1111112040153

Deans on Gits

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/deans-on-giteau/video-e6frf4pu-1226117406367?subcat=1111112040153

Deans on Rocky

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/0...-e6frf4pu-1226117337824?sectionvertical=rugby

 

[Gnostic]

Comprehensible to who? And what is a the point of "performance in mode of play" if it isn't winning?

I've been willing to criticize Deans when I thought he made the wrong choice, so it's only fair that he get credit for making what I think is the right choice, even if it is a tad late.

Comprehenisble to me - who else? I don't give a shit if others can comprehend it, I question greatly the conhension skills of many anyway. I don't say I have to agree with the selection, just be able to comprehend reasons why X gets selected continuously and be able to support it without some argument, even if I disagree.

Performance in Mode of play will eventually lead to winning games. The genisis of the Qld Reds performances this year can be traced back to 2009 under Mooney. Even then they showed some great play, but were sadly lacking in key areas. Along comes link to fill out those areas and enhance the ground work of Mooney and you get the performances of 2010 and ultimately the consistant confidence and application of 2011. The mode of play and skills execution established in 2009 and 2010 provided the ground work for this. If the Reds failed to win the title I doubt many would be down on them as they played great Rugby all year.

Contrast with the Wallabies whose mode of play has never been consistant under Deans, and skills execution has been average to disgraceful on many occassions. So my requirement of performance in mode of play is really looking for application in individual games but also the coach actually putting in the ground work for improvement over time. IMO we have not seen that at any stage and it is the key reason why I am so anti-Deans and Co. To my mind the win:loss ration while important is a factor of this and not the core issue for me.

 

[Athilnaur]

Nothing except consistant performance from the team (not necessarily winning, but performance in mode of play), comprehensible selection in ALL matches and a well reasoned game plan will get my support.

I fear you are doomed to disappointment well past the current coach Gnostic.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Interesting in the video how Deans talks as if Rocky has "been injured" and when get gets to 100% we can expect "big things" from him.

I hope it is true, but there isn't long before the world cup so i hope he gets a move on with this rehab so we can see his best.

 

[Gnostic]

I fear you are doomed to disappointment well past the current coach Gnostic.

Why? Do you not think that the players in Australia can play well? Do you think there is nobody in Australia or elsewhere that can put together a decent game plan?

I thoroughly enjoyed much of the Super season this year from the Rebels to the Reds with the exception of the Brumbies continuous League game, and the Tahs total loss of skills execution. I do not think that I am doomed to disappointment at all. I still enjoy watching the Wallabies for the most part and did so even under E. Jones, but they could be so much better especially with the current players available with a decent leadership and coaching group.

 

[BarneySF]

Great to see Samo in the team but made me think of what happened to him back in '04 when he was picked for a test or 2 in order to prevent Fiji poaching him and wondered if this is what has happened to Timani? 1 test cap after being named in Tongan squad keeps him out now. Not that I'm saying we were that worried about losing him to Tonga - nor was there any room for him in the final 30. Pundits say that he will be ready for 2015, but isn't he off to ply his trade in Japan? That'll harden him up.

 

[aussie1st]

Surely Hodgson would have been a better pick than McCalman, he can fill the physical game that Deans seems to want while covering openside. Also Barnes and Mitchell will probably be in the 22, then it looks like we will go with the 4/3 bench split which means we have 2 number 8s that will be left out.

Other than that and the selection of the 3rd halfback, not a bad squad.

 

[RedsHappy]

Neat, short interview with Big Kev here, plus glorious to see Samo in a suit and tie and that hair! (later in the vid, panning across the team). [And Growden always good for a laugh - 'Elsom loss of captaincy came as no surprise to those close to the team...and his spot in team now in doubt...' ummm...you, mr independent journalist, forgot to tell us about that until today]:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...he-team-came-under-threat-20110818-1iz7t.html

 

[Athilnaur]

Why? Do you not think that the players in Australia can play well? Do you think there is nobody in Australia or elsewhere that can put together a decent game plan?

I thoroughly enjoyed much of the Super season this year from the Rebels to the Reds with the exception of the Brumbies continuous League game, and the Tahs total loss of skills execution. I do not think that I am doomed to disappointment at all. I still enjoy watching the Wallabies for the most part and did so even under E. Jones, but they could be so much better especially with the current players available with a decent leadership and coaching group.

Well, lets see;

Nothing except consistence in performance.

Its the nature of rugby that all teams are in a state of flux. Even the current ABs, arguably one of the most successful rugby teams ever, could not claim such a thing.

Comprehensible selection in ALL matches

If there is one thing of which this board has left me utterly convinced, it is that there is no such thing as a universally agreed 'comprehensible selection.' To then apply such a standard in 'ALL matches' is nothing short of the impossible benchmark. Worse, arbitrary benchmarks.

a well reasoned game plan

How many people in Australia have access to such a thing to make an informed comment? Comments to the media + speculation a game plan do not make. Don't even get me started on the logic issues with divining a game plan by deduction from 'incomprehensible selections' vs 'comprehensible selections', perceived knowledge of the opposition vs the coaches knowledge, or data available to the coach we do not possess.

No problems with you disliking the current coaching setup, thats why we have a forum. I just think that the standard you communicated is an impossible one for any coach to meet unless you are the coach in question!

Having said all that I am in furious agreement with you about Mooney's Reds. Loved them and I do see your point.

 

[mark_s]

I understand the logic of selecting the previously injured players now. Overall seems like a good squad and I reckon Hodgson will be following them round NZ leaving banana skins in hotel foyers. The change of captaincy is right and I never saw Rocky as a long term leader – he was one of the few certain selections at the time.

My first thought was why didn’t he do it at the start of the test season, but Horwill was rested for the Samoa game and I guess I can some logic in not wanting to change without giving Rocky another chance.

 

[daz]

Neat, short interview with Big Kev here, plus glorious to see Samo in a suit and tie and that hair! (later in the vid, panning across the team). [And Growden always good for a laugh - 'Elsom loss of captaincy came as no surprise to those close to the team...and his spot in team now in doubt...' ummm...you, mr independent journalist, forgot to tell us about that until today]:

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...he-team-came-under-threat-20110818-1iz7t.html

I think the highlighted bit tells you the answer to your comment RH.

Growden wouldn't know if his arse was on fire until someone pointed it out. Assuming someone would.