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Wallabies world cup squad selection

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rugbysmartarse

Alan Cameron (40)
my only contributionto this thread is to point out that we, as supporters, see the players play in a game situation once a week at very best, while the coaching staff see them train for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week (from what I can gather) on top of the game time. There is a lot more that goes into the decisions than past form, which we do not know about.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
I don't think it ever vwas a case of 'sacrificing' performances for the sake of the RWC over the past 4 seasons. I think as above post (and even during) RWC 2007 we were at a low ebb in terms of talent and depth. Deans had to effectively develop the first and build the second. That doesn't happen overnight and takes time especially as he had to reach into a very young talent pool. It began to mature last season imo, not perfect and still prone to vulnerability (.i.e. England last season). This season we could see it come on further and potentially win the RWC something I heard little hope for in 07.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
I think I can have a guess at the gameplan of the forwards from Deans:

Sharpe - getting a rest and seeing what the alternatives can offer.

McCalman - high work rate and fast back row able to support wider play in the backs (our backs are likely to play with more width than any other team) Even though I want to see Samo, I would still start McCalman with Samo on the bench.

Elsom - he is captain at the moment, so needs to be given time to get back to his best

Higginbotham - a reserve loose forward with speed to again support wide breaks. An Elsom type player.

Kepu - greater impact in tight than alexander, and likely that Deans has slipper as his first choice thp, so wants Kepu in the role he is expected to continue in.

Overall, I think Deans wants high work rate forwards, with the ability to hit it up on the angle from Genia's passes. There will be much less pick and drive from this wallabies pack than from other international sides. More of the halfback controlling the forwards, particularly with the Reds successful blindside play tactic. He may be willing to compromise slightly in the scrum, and slightly at in tight running for the ability to more speedily support the breakdown, and therefore hopefully have faster front foot ball.

It isn't a tactic that is likely to work in a wet grind-a-thon, but it does suit our style on a dry track.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Scotty,

I think you are near on the money as to what game plan Deans is looking to play. In the wet of Sydney a forthnight or so ago, the WBs played an up tempo game plan. Hard working mobile forwards are a must to unleash our backline.
 

BrumbiesPolynesian

Fred Wood (13)
With Gits not being selected for this test, do you think his time is over......You would have to back Cooper as the incumbant...Barnes as back up and either O'Connor or Beale to be the 3rd string......any thoughts....???
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
I don't think it ever vwas a case of 'sacrificing' performances for the sake of the RWC over the past 4 seasons. I think as above post (and even during) RWC 2007 we were at a low ebb in terms of talent and depth. Deans had to effectively develop the first and build the second. That doesn't happen overnight and takes time especially as he had to reach into a very young talent pool. It began to mature last season imo, not perfect and still prone to vulnerability (.i.e. England last season). This season we could see it come on further and potentially win the RWC something I heard little hope for in 07.

This is the post that I was about to write, but WorkingClassRugger has said it more eloquently.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
McCalman - high work rate and fast back row able to support wider play in the backs (our backs are likely to play with more width than any other team) Even though I want to see Samo, I would still start McCalman with Samo on the bench.

Scotty, I think you've nailed the McCalman selection there.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
With Gits not being selected for this test, do you think his time is over......You would have to back Cooper as the incumbant...Barnes as back up and either O'Connor or Beale to be the 3rd string......any thoughts....???

Well, Gits should be part of the RWC squad.

He was in good form this year, and deserves his spot in the squad.

In fact, his performances on the field were much better than Barnes, but you could argue Barnes didn't perform because of his concussions.

I understand why he's not in the current team due to the the players Deans has gone with and the adequate cover, but he deserves to go to the World Cup.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Giteau was is good form, but I think it's been tested by almost all possible criteria that he's a 12, especially at the Test level.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Well, Gits should be part of the RWC squad.

He was in good form this year, and deserves his spot in the squad.

In fact, his performances on the field were much better than Barnes, but you could argue Barnes didn't perform because of his concussions.

I understand why he's not in the current team due to the the players Deans has gone with and the adequate cover, but he deserves to go to the World Cup.

You wouldn't be saying that if he was playing for the Waratahs. ;)
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'm not a Waratahs fan. I simply used them as the team that I felt you would most cringe at the idea of.

It usually would be, but this year it's been the Reds.

Don't worry though, I'll come back around to hating everything Waratah. I don't think you're allowed to be a Brumbies' supporter and not hate them.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Deans is an international rugby coach. Whilst it is adorable that we accountants, hairdressers, bankers and computer programmers believe we're better at coaching and selection at that level, it is highly unlikely that we actually are. When I see what I perceive to be an obvious error from a national coach, the first thing I wonder is what it is I don't understand. Of course it might be true that we could teach Deans a thing or two, it is slightly more likely that he could teach us. Of course, this doesn't mean we can't disagree and moan to our heart's content! This is the Internet, after all. As long as we keep remembering that it's all a fantasy, and that we're not actually experts, then we'll be alright.

Groucho, of all the means of protecting our coaches and Wallabies and ARU management from legitimate critique, this one (above) IMO is the weakest of the bunch.

History is littered with powerful examples of where 'non experts' and 'ordinary people' dared to question an embedded elite's MO and alleged greater wisdom, and were ultimately proved right and the elite or management in question eventually gave way to an analysis of their ineptitudes or limitations that prevailed as the more truthful narrative. A lack of 'expert knowledge' never proves that 'amateur knowledge' cannot, through good instinct or a more profound intuition, be more correct over time.

None of we critics of multiple elements of Deans' policies, management structure or selections claim to be, as you say, 'better at coaching and selection at that level', but we do see outcomes that, over 3 plus years of this highly praised coaching regime, look way less than optimal and that are properly subject to hard evaluation by a passionate fan or two (that btw typically pays big $s to go to Wallaby games, etc.).

The core problem that you indirectly evade in these comments is really the compelling issue: a chronic lack of real, measurable success over many years now, and 90% of the critique of Deans arises from this. Whatever the cheerleaders say, by any standards of performance, including those set forth by the ARU every year since early 2008, Deans has achieved a poor level of % wins, and when the easy-beat teams are taken out, his w-l is less than 50% and against the major teams it's been ordinary at best over this extended period. We have Scotlands, Samoas, two Test losses v England just last year, no silverware bar the Mandela, and then we have appalling inconsistency and lapses of intensity within many games that could have been won, but weren't. Moreover, as legitimate contrast, we have the example of Link who achieved major improvements with the Reds _in less than 6 months_ in 2010, and then, in less that 20 months, had that team winning a major championship, not with 15 star players, but with just a few stars and plenty of 'workmanlike' other players. Accordingly, _based upon results actually achieved vs constant excuses and post-hoc rationalisations_, many of us have praised Link and supported him with affection and intensity as he hasn't talked, he has delivered and totally rejuvenated large tracts of Australian rugby in a remarkably short period. That is a wholly admirable achievement, and what should be admired. So, we are not inveterate carpers, we strongly support those that deliver for the game, as we should.

I sense that you and others 'want to believe', sort of an 'addictive patriot' syndrome IMO. Others that critique annoy you as they see a world where more should be demanded of this expensive coaching elite that promised so much at commencement, yet have delivered principally future-ware, not now-ware. Unless and until we see a pattern of consistent success and achievement by the Wallabies, vs endless promises of delayed gratification, we shall all just have to learn to live together.
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
so based on link's super rugby success he is a better coach than deans? and you think Link should be wallabies coach based on what he's done this year with the reds?
what did deans do in the previous how many years?? with the crusaders? consistent success across the board. which is clearly the major basis on why he was hired for the wallabies job. yet clearly that success hasn't exactly transferred over. do you think that is because of deans himself or the players and the structure he has had to work with?
I believe the mental lapses in key moments is the inexperience of the young players he has blooded not really deans. and as he's progressed with these young players and they've matured those lapses have become less frequent (think the clutch playing in HK and Bloemfontein). it was deans that blooded cooper, oconnor, beale, genia and pocock. they were inconsistent at first and made some bad decisions but now look how good they are.
I hardly see any reason why Link would be better than Deans at wallaby level especially if you're rationale is that link had success in one year with the reds.
 

Richo

John Thornett (49)
RH's argument is not so much that Link would be a better option but that coaches can achieve significant results from a low base with a much faster turn-around than Deans has achieved so far.

To my mind, we will see this year if the investment in youth will pay off. I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel, even if I do think criticism is valid. Our result in the RWC (and to a lesser extent the Bled) will determine both Deans' legacy and future as Wallaby coach.
 
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