Wallabies Watch

[thierry dusautoir]

I think alexander is a better LHP then robinson, i think it's robinson should start bench and we field an all brumby front row

 

[cyclopath]

At the moment, hard to argue against Robinson and Alexander being in there, I would like Palmer to start, but not as the bench THP. I think Ryan is currently offering more in general play and scrumming combined, which is what I reckon you want later. Slipper maybe also fits that bill, although less prominent this year, but has a track record. But if you just want the best scrumming THP to start - Palmer. And I do not give the proverbial rodent's arse that he is going OS!!!

 

[Braveheart81]

Stanley is eligible but he isn't a strong candidate at this time.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is admittedly playing the best he has in a long time in the 13 jersey, but I think his lacklustre form 2012 wallaby form will hang over him hence why I don't consider him a certainty.

I think Robbie would be more inclined to pick someone like Tapuai at 13 if he can continue to improve his form.

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit. I think the fact that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the incumbent and is playing better now than he did in 2012 means he will be one of the first people selected in the team.

As others have said, I think Genia, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horwill will be the first three players picked in the starting XV. There will be almost no debate over them at the selection table.

I would then guess that Robbo and Ioane would be the next two locked in.

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Ryan is currently offering more in general play and scrumming combined, which is what I reckon you want later.

Does this change with two props becoming mandatory on the bench? Whereas you previously saw scrums becoming a bit depowered as the game went on and players tired, will you now see scrums continuing to be a weapon late in the game when you have an entirely fresh front row on the field?

 

[cyclopath]

Braveheart81 I guess. I think Ryan is scrummaging well, so can achieve that aspect, but give a little more than perhaps Palmer would later in the game. Ryan's more dynamic ball running would be better at the latter stages perhaps. Personally, I'm a big Palmer fan, and would have him start with Moore and Robinson, then have Alexander and someone like Ryan as replacements. Slipper is in that mix. Hooker = No Farking Idea at the moment, as TPN is problematic, and not sure who else. Maybe Hanson??

 

[USARugger]

Braveheart81 I guess. I think Ryan is scrummaging well, so can achieve that aspect, but give a little more than perhaps Palmer would later in the game. Ryan's more dynamic ball running would be better at the latter stages perhaps. Personally, I'm a big Palmer fan, and would have him start with Moore and Robinson, then have Alexander and someone like Ryan as replacements. Slipper is in that mix. Hooker = No Farking Idea at the moment, as TPN is problematic, and not sure who else. Maybe Hanson??

Ryan would be a fantastic replacement to counter a guy like Vunipola should they bring him. Honestly Vunipola's explosiveness in the loose over the last 20 minutes of a game has had me a bit nervous recently, luckily I believe he's a dark horse candidate for the Lions and may not get test time if he even travels.

For a replacement coming off the bench I think Hanson brings more to the table than what we currently have available. His style of play suits the role pretty well.

Honestly it looks like we may be able to assemble a better forward pack then I think anyone would have ever anticipated two years ago. I'm echoing others with this but the forwards are the main reason we won at all in 2012. If the backs can somehow start attacking like it's 2010 again the Lions could be properly fucked come June.

 

[Braveheart81]

Braveheart81 I guess. I think Ryan is scrummaging well, so can achieve that aspect, but give a little more than perhaps Palmer would later in the game. Ryan's more dynamic ball running would be better at the latter stages perhaps. Personally, I'm a big Palmer fan, and would have him start with Moore and Robinson, then have Alexander and someone like Ryan as replacements. Slipper is in that mix. Hooker = No Farking Idea at the moment, as TPN is problematic, and not sure who else. Maybe Hanson??

On current form I agree with you.

I would start Robbo, Moore, Palmer and finish with Alexander, TPN, Ryan.

 

[BDA]

The question of props is interesting.

We are playing 23 man sides so you are picking two loose heads and two tight heads.

Do you start with your strongest scrum or do you wait and see what the Lions are doing with their props? Currently you'd imagine that our strongest scrum has Robbo at LHP and Palmer at THP. If the Lions have one of their best scrummaging props on the bench is it better to hold Palmer back for example and mix your prop order around.

With Palmer and the emergence of Ryan and also Slipper and Kepu potentially in the mix, does Alexander seem like the likely back up LHP? Who else is likely?

You could start with Robbo and Palmer and finish with Alexander and Slipper/Ryan.

Alternatively you could mix it up and decide to start with Robbo and Slipper/Ryan and bring Palmer on later in the game to bolster the scrum when it is weakened by having the second choice LHP and a weaker locking combination (also if Palu starts at 8 and comes off, the scrum will weaken slightly then too). If your starting locks are Horwill and Douglas, any substitution there will weaken the scrum unless it is Timani coming on.

Likewise if we end up with both Smith and Hooper/Gill on the field late in the game (or even Hooper and Gill if Smith doesn't play), that produces a slightly weaker scrum than having Mowen, Dennis or Higgers at 6.

You pose some interesting questions. One possibly attractive option would be to start with an all Brumbies front row of BennyA/Moore/Palmer. It's an established combination and a strong front row imo. In the second half you could bring on Robbo/TPN/(Slipper/Ryan/Kepu). Again you have an established combination. I think TPN is probably stronger as scrum time than Moore so we'd be finishing the game with a strong scrum. I agree with you that seems safer than playing Robbo/Palmer first half and then bringing out a weaker combination towards the end of the game.

 

[TOCC]

You seem to be contradicting yourself a bit. I think the fact that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the incumbent and is playing better now than he did in 2012 means he will be one of the first people selected in the team.

As others have said, I think Genia, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Horwill will be the first three players picked in the starting XV. There will be almost no debate over them at the selection table.

I would then guess that Robbo and Ioane would be the next two locked in.

My initial argument is that he isn't a certainty as many people are suggesting, his 2012 form left a lot to be desired, yes he is in better form this year, but my argument is that his form from 2012 will hang over his head come selection time and I don't think his is an automatic starting player as Genia, Horwill and Moore are, I feel that RD will examine his options with some crazy selections as he always does.

 

[TOCC]

You pose some interesting questions. One possibly attractive option would be to start with an all Brumbies front row of BennyA/Moore/Palmer. It's an established combination and a strong front row imo. In the second half you could bring on Robbo/TPN/(Slipper/Ryan/Kepu). Again you have an established combination. I think TPN is probably stronger as scrum time than Moore so we'd be finishing the game with a strong scrum. I agree with you that seems safer than playing Robbo/Palmer first half and then bringing out a weaker combination towards the end of the game.

I would almost argue that the lock-prop combo is equally if not more important then the prop-hooker-prop combo..

 

[DT86]

Players like Quade and Genia quite literally pass the ball flatter and with higher velocity over longer distances than other players can, that is a fact. Even at the international level there are still tiers of ability in that regard. To think that everyone even at the professional level will have world-class freak talent is a little silly. Barnes, who has a solid long passing game couldn't hold a candle to Quade when he is playing well. Pretty sure there actually isn't a single person in Australia right now outside of QC (Quade Cooper) who can throw a 25m flick pass running at pace. World-class ability still stands out even at Super Rugby level.

I totally agree with everything you said although most of it is obvious statements and irrelevant to the point i was trying to make. Quite obviously every player would have subtle differences in the velocity/flatness of their pass and you would think that a wallaby 9 and 10 would be better than others. I didnt say every prof 10 had to have world class freak talent (otherwise it wouldnt be world class would it) however i agree that to think that would be silly. Barnes vs an on fire Quade is no comparison of course but thats a general statement and irrelevant to my post. And throwing a 25m flick pass at pace is impressive but i dont think it is a reason to pick one player over another.

When someone like Quade puts a player through the hole people think oh that was a good pass. But the pass was only the final nail in the coffin so to speak. The hole has to be created/maintained, seen by both the passer and the runner and then exploited. Most likely the creation of that space was started phases before the ball was even thrown. When Quade starts dancing around he sucks defenders in and creates more space out wide. If you look at the good passes Quade has made, and then hypothetically if you could swap barnes and quade at the moment when the pass is thrown, ill bet that barnes would hit the target accurately. What my whole point is that its not the pass itself but all the other attributes that allow that pass to be so effective.

To put it in another perspective you would think that speed is important, probably more so than being able to throw a flick pass. But ive seen backs run around defenders that were faster than them. Why? because of good running lines and a good control on the momentum of the defender. Rugby knowledge is something that doesn't show up on the stats and isnt obvious to the untrained eye but its value is huge.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

If Deans and co. are interested in Mogg, but are worried about his defence, then get word out to Jake and make Auelua run over the top of him in training until he learns how to tackle.

or it kills him, whichever comes first. but either way we will know

 

[Bowside]

Is TPN 'clutch' enough to be playing in a lions tour. Imagine with 2 minutes to go, we have a lineout 10m out on their line, is TPN going to nail that throw?

And is he not going to drop the ball coming around the corner to hit it up a couple of phases later?

I'm not saying he's not the second best hooker in the country, but is he a good fit for what is needed?

 

[Braveheart81]

Is TPN 'clutch' enough to be playing in a lions tour. Imagine with 2 minutes to go, we have a lineout 10m out on their line, is TPN going to nail that throw?

And is he not going to drop the ball coming around the corner to hit it up a couple of phases later?

I'm not saying he's not the second best hooker in the country, but is he a good fit for what is needed?

Maybe these are the reasons that he was starting last year rather than finishing?

He's had some injury issues this year, but over the course of 2012, he certainly affirmed the fact that there was daylight between him and Moore and the third best hooker in the country. At the start of 2012 that didn't seem to be the case.

For the record, like everyone, I think Moore is a better player.

 

[Slim 293]

He simply provides a couple of minutes rest for Moore before he knocks himself out.........

 

[fatprop]

Maybe these are the reasons that he was starting last year rather than finishing?

He's had some injury issues this year, but over the course of 2012, he certainly affirmed the fact that there was daylight between him and Moore and the third best hooker in the country. At the start of 2012 that didn't seem to be the case.

For the record, like everyone, I think Moore is a better player.

the only reason I could think of as to why TPN was picked over Moore last season was lack of other units who could/can bend the line and/or dominate a collision

 

[Bowside]

Maybe these are the reasons that he was starting last year rather than finishing?

He's had some injury issues this year, but over the course of 2012, he certainly affirmed the fact that there was daylight between him and Moore and the third best hooker in the country. At the start of 2012 that didn't seem to be the case.

For the record, like everyone, I think Moore is a better player.

I can definitely understand the reasoning behind starting TPN. But on the flipside, I think the wallabies need to start getting ahead early in games, and Moore is crucial to making that happen.

How often is it already too late once Moore got on the field.

 

[Dumbledore]

or it kills him, whichever comes first. but either way we will know

Well exactly. We'd know what he was made of one way or the other. I know I said before the Wallabies should be focussing on picking the best possible Wallaby team, not worrying about the Lions individual players - but we really can't afford to carry someone like ROG who is just completely unable to tackle.

 

[BDA]

Yes i always preferred TPN starting, not because he's better than Moore, simply because I'd rather have Moore playing in the second half when the chips are down. Also TPN's physical style is particularly effective in the first 20 minutes of a game

 

[thierry dusautoir]

TPN physicality has been a myth this season and last.


Does anyone else think that inserting MMM at no. 6 to accomodate douglas/horwill or anyone but timani/horwill combination