Wallabies Watch

[Slim 293]

From memory last time he packed down at lock for Australia he was paired with either Mumm or Chisolm which was just asking for trouble. Throw him in with an animal like Horwill and he'll be fine.

Chisholm was a good scrummaging lock.........

 

[Ruggo]

From memory last time he packed down at lock for Australia he was paired with either Mumm or Chisolm which was just asking for trouble. Throw him in with an animal like Horwill and he'll be fine.

I can't remember but I think he was with Sharpie when our scrum got pounded at Twickers.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is he the second row version of a notter?

Not an expression I had heard before - is this what you mean?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=notter

 

[Sully]

Not an expression I had heard before - is this what you mean?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=notter

Ha. No. It's a term I think Lee Grant (I think it was Lee) uses to describe a backrower that's not a 6 or a 7 or a 8 but a little of all 3. maybe he spells it nota.

btw: I heard he wanted to come home. Hope the Reds have been talking to him if he does.

 

[qwerty51]

What about calling it a Richard Brown?

 

[Sully]

What about calling it a Richard Brown?

I'd comment but then I'd have to moderate myself.

 

[barbarian]

I thought the term was 'halfling', from memory. Stephen Hoiles may have been an early example, if not the original.

 

[Gnostic]

I would have thought David Codey the first. But that was very different times and the roles of the backrowers were very different. Indeed from memory Willie O played in all three backrow spots as well.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Locking stocks look positive also and on both sides. Realistically this is a game of find a partner for Horwill. I doubt Horwill will pack on the LH side come Wallaby time so finding his LH partner is the main question. The main options are Douglas, MMM and Simmons.

I think it's fair to say if we are choosing the best team, it means finding the best line out leader as it's one thing as a lock, which Horwill isn't. Possibly rules Douglas out and is about the only thing that gives Simmons another chance after his previous 12 months. Is MMM a line out leader?

 

[Grandmaster Flash]

Ha. No. It's a term I think Lee Grant (I think it was Lee) uses to describe a backrower that's not a 6 or a 7 or a 8 but a little of all 3. maybe he spells it nota.

btw: I heard he wanted to come home. Hope the Reds have been talking to him if he does.

I thought LG used it more for 6/second rowers who were not quite tall enough for the second row but a little too slow/ineffective at six, kinda like a Dean Mumm at test level?

 

[Slim 293]

I thought LG used it more for 6/second rowers who were not quite tall enough for the second row but a little too slow/ineffective at six, kinda like a Dean Mumm at test level?

Lee Grant has used the term in that context, but he's primarily used it for backrowers who are not quite a 6, 7, or 8..........

 

[stevotop]

Team certainly depends on who makes it through to the Lions series uninjured. Apologies for a Reds bias, I've seen much more of their games this year and in the past and some borderline selections reflect that.
1. Alexander
2. Moore
3. Ryan
4. Douglas
5. Horwill
6. Dennis
7. Gill
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. Lealiifano
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Shipperley
15. Mogg
Reserves:
Polota-Nau
Slipper
Kimlin
Hooper
White
O'Connor
Tapuai

Easiest selections are Horwill, Genia and Palu (if fit). Toughest omissions from the 15 are Carter, O'Connor, Tapuai, Speight, Hooper and Kimlin. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) with a late show of form puts him in, just. Ioane sneaks in on his combination with QC (Quade Cooper) and Genia but Mafi is a close omission.

My backrow is definitely dependent on who is fit and balance between contesting the breakdown and running the ball / dynamism around the ground. For example, if TPN is fit and starts at hooker, I lean towards more fetching in the backrow vs ballrunning. I used to enjoy the NZ backrow with So'oialo, McCaw and Jerry Collins where Jerry played a loose / ballrunner role and then the other two covered the breakdowns. I think Schatz could fill a similar role, but we could struggle matching things physically.

Folau misses out because I think he'll get into trouble trying to run back kicks against the Lions due to being unable to kick well enough to play 15 at that level.

 

[Athilnaur]

Mate you are kidding yourself on all 3 counts.

1. JOC (James O'Connor) aint a 10 and the fact he is being selected at 15 for the Rebels with a rookie at 10 shows that.
2. McCabe is solid defender, but he is not a hugely dominant defender. Further more, if you want an example of shutting down big centres, have a look at the Reds vs the Chiefs in 2012 and Crusaders in 2011. You will find it was Taps on SBW in both those cases with Ant Fainga'a at 13. You cannot call McCabe any more of a dominate tackler than Fainga'a
3. Quade is no worse on defence than JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale. Both these two fall off plenty of tackles. Hell JOC (James O'Connor) was shown up by both McCabe and Carter last year at 12. Neither noted attacking players. All 3 are at an unacceptable level, but none worse than the other.

Apologies for delay when thread has moved on but wanted to address this.
1. JOC (James O'Connor) was fine at ten in the EOYT 2011. To the point plenty here were waxing lyrical. At test level he won't try to compensate so hard. Having said that you weren't really addressing the spirit of the post. For the record I am not actually an advocate of JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 ( or 12 actually), it was a means to canvassing crash ball centres surrounded by playmakers. 'For arguments sake'.
2. We will have to disagree there, McCabe is, imo, a player who makes regular dominant tackles. No I wouldn't say more dominant than Ant but I would say he has a much higher completion rate, we are talking low 80s vs low 90s. Over hundreds of tackles. He is also faster.
3. Cooper is a LOT worse than JOC (James O'Connor) in defense. If you want stats I'm happy to oblige. Yes Quade has improved, yes he has been better than Beale in 2013, tho some of that is compensation for rubbish Rebels D. But JOC (James O'Connor) and Barnes kick Quade's ass in D. EOS. And frankly I'd have Barnes over Cooper any day of the week at test level right now, and I say that as a big fan of Quade's playstyle.

None of which really relates to the spirit of my post. If you have dynamic players at 9, 11, 14, 15, and playmakers at 9, 10, 15, do you need a playmaker at 12, or can you slot in a player like McCabe or Horne?

Many here want a playmaker 12 outside there ten, but my argument is to see our centres, esp 12, provide some starch to our game. Watching us crab in attack and crumble in defense made me weep tears of blood. Watching us be lame ducks in attack a la 2012 wasn't much better I admit, BUT my premise is 2 centres who can dominate in D and gain advantage while straightening in atk, surrounded by dynamic players offering options. Last year all we could do is say 'do it again diggers'. The key is better offloads, better support runners, more backs running lines off a base of forward play. Not rocket science but Deans was trying (albeit so badly I seem to recall Austin didn't see it as a gameplan) to do that last year. This year what are we seeing from good teams?

/rant off.

 

[Brumbieman]

FFS.

Robinson
Moore
Palmer
Horwill
Douglas
Mowen
Smith
Palu

TPN
Alexander
MMM
Gill/Hooper
Fotu

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I would have thought David Codey the first. But that was very different times and the roles of the backrowers were very different. Indeed from memory Willie O played in all three backrow spots as well.

Charlie Crittle was prior to them all - but he played flanker and 2nd row


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Richo]

Ath, we've played McCabe and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the centre pairing more than enough. It does not appear to add starch to the attack, unless you mean a kind of gluey corn flour starch that gets the ball stuck in the middle channels.

 

[Scotty]

Ant,

I don't think people want a playmaker at 12, just someone who is able to distribute the ball when required while not compromising defence too much. Taps and Lilo have reasonable defense and can move the ball on or offload when required, not to mention kick as well. McCabe is seriously flawed in these areas.

He can battle it out with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) for the 13 spot where lacking of passing skills aren't as big an issue and straight hard running is a real bonus.

 

[Braveheart81]

Barnes, Lilo and Tapuai (and potentially Godwin in a year or two) are the true 12s who can provide that all round game of distribution, strong defence and a solid kicking game. Lilo and Barnes both provide either first or second choice goalkicking as well (depending on who else is in the side).

Depending on his comeback from injury, it would seem that Barnes is more likely to play 15 for the Wallabies after his excellent Spring Tour there last year.

Tapuai surely has the best shot at 12 after playing there at the end of last year but I don't think he's really cemented his position at this point.

With Beale surely at long odds to play the Lions tour now, the backline most likely would seem to be:

Genia
Cooper
Ioane
Tapuai
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
JOC (James O'Connor)
Barnes

White
Lilo
Mogg or Folau possibly (if we play 3 back reserves. Mogg is electrifyingly quick, has a massive boot and great skills and Folau is s getting better every week and is pretty much unmatched in his ability under the high ball. Both really provide x factor in different ways).

 

[Gnostic]

I understand incumbency, but I fail to understand what people see in Barnes. His kicking game is innacurate and gifts the ball to the opposition more than he find the touch line for territory, he is not a distributory player when you look at his statistics, he is a kicker in the Morne Steyn mould but without the big boot or the accuracy. He has an average long pass and for all his good games with the Tahs and Wallabies in the last 5 years there have been many more poor games.

He is not fast and with his relatively small boot I see him as a liability at 15, even more so than at 12 and 10. I do not see a place for him at the Tahs let alone the Wallabies. It is a great pity that since he left the Reds we have never seen Barnes at his best as he had huge potential, but it is one that I see as largely unfulfilled.

 

[Braveheart81]

I understand incumbency, but I fail to understand what people see in Barnes. His kicking game is innacurate and gifts the ball to the opposition more than he find the touch line for territory, he is not a distributory player when you look at his statistics, he is a kicker in the Morne Steyn mould but without the big boot or the accuracy. He has an average long pass and for all his good games with the Tahs and Wallabies in the last 5 years there have been many more poor games.

He is not fast and with his relatively small boot I see him as a liability at 15, even more so than at 12 and 10. I do not see a place for him at the Tahs let alone the Wallabies. It is a great pity that since he left the Reds we have never seen Barnes at his best as he had huge potential, but it is one that I see as largely unfulfilled.

Who has played better as fullback for the Wallabies since Kurtley Beale in 2010?

> for all his good games with the Tahs and Wallabies in the last 5 years there have been many more poor games.

This is just flat out wrong. He was close to the Wallabies best in all three games against Wales in the home series last year. He was excellent on the EOYT and threw an excellent long pass to set up the winning try at the death against Wales.

If this is how you rate Barnes, surely just about every player in the Wallabies in averaging 1 good game for 5 bad games.