Wallabies Watch

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

I doubt it would make much of a difference, only Sharpe had more then 75caps and he was in the twilight of his career anyway.

arbitrary number. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) would be there, robinson and mitchell all about there as well.

50 caps. first two years after a world cup

 

[TSR]

I've been thinking about the 3 amigos and how most people here fall on one side or the other:

• dislike them because they're trouble making prima donnas who undermine rather than contribute to team morale by virtue of their incessant antics;
• geniuses who should be forgiven every sin because of their potential to pull something out of a hat.

Rather than merely debate these two sides of the argument I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone is able to identify a player with these types of issues, on a long term basis, who ever fulfilled the potential identified when they were first picked.

I struggle to think of one.
My premise is that picking blokes in spite of their behaviour because they have potential, either theoretical or shown from time to time, is a flawed approach. Almost without fail I reckon if you pick the bloke with his head and heart in the right place you will finish up in front.

Interesting question IS. I think to some extent the level of scrutiny of players these days makes some of the modern players seem so much worse than there predecessors when it is probably not really the case.

Off the top of my head Ricky Ponting, Brad Fittler, Todd Carney, Greg Bird & Nate Miles are all guys who have had issues of some level and straightened themselves out to go on and have plenty of success (or are having success). I also think of someone like Neville Costigan who was dumped by Wayne Bennett early in his career but seems to have turned himself around. We now know Andrew Johns went through his career with as a drug user - his whole career may have been different if this was known more widely early in his career. Wayne Carey still had success as an AFL player after forgetting the 10th commandment.

But I don't think this makes your point completely invalid - most of these guys had to face the music over their actions at some point and 'grew up'.

I'd have to say, I also don't think everyone falls neatly into the two descriptions you outlined. From the comments on here, I think there are plenty of us who broadly support players of the like of Cooper & Beale, enjoy watching them play, but think they need to address shortcomings in their game + wish they would rein in their off field behaviour.

Just think though - if everyone was perfect this blog would be much less entertaining.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Interesting question IS. I think to some extent the level of scrutiny of players these days makes some of the modern players seem so much worse than there predecessors when it is probably not really the case.

Off the top of my head Ricky Ponting, Brad Fittler, Todd Carney, Greg Bird & Nate Miles are all guys who have had issues of some level and straightened themselves out to go on and have plenty of success (or are having success). I also think of someone like Neville Costigan who was dumped by Wayne Bennett early in his career but seems to have turned himself around. We now know Andrew Johns went through his career with as a drug user - his whole career may have been different if this was known more widely early in his career. Wayne Carey still had success as an AFL player after forgetting the 10th commandment.

But I don't think this makes your point completely invalid - most of these guys had to face the music over their actions at some point and 'grew up'.

I'd have to say, I also don't think everyone falls neatly into the two descriptions you outlined. From the comments on here, I think there are plenty of us who broadly support players of the like of Cooper & Beale, enjoy watching them play, but think they need to address shortcomings in their game + wish they would rein in their off field behaviour.

Just think though - if everyone was perfect this blog would be much less entertaining.

so I'll refine it a bit: indiscretion > face music > behave or **** off.
Imagine how much better JOC (James O'Connor) would be if he had been dropped after failing to front for the photo call?

 

[Brumbies Guy]

I thought it would be interesting to see if anyone is able to identify a player with these types of issues, on a long term basis, who ever fulfilled the potential identified when they were first picked.
I struggle to think of one.

Mike Tyson
Floyd Mayweather
Deigo Maradona
Mario Balotelli
Michael Vick
Dennis Rodman
Brad Fittler
Andrew Johns
Todd Carney

 

[TSR]

Not sure that Mike Tyson is a good example. Most of his character flaws involved him being a violent & destructive individual. Doubt that hindered him in the ring (other than the disqualification for trying to eat Holyfield's ear).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Brumbies Guy
Mike Tyson - Prison
Floyd Mayweather -
In 2002, Mayweather was charged with two counts of domestic violence and one count of misdemeanor battery. He received a six-month suspended sentence, two days of house arrest and was ordered to perform 48 hours of community service.[152] In 2004 Mayweather was given a one-year suspended jail sentence, ordered to undergo counseling for "impulse control" and pay a $1,000 fine (or perform 100 hours of community service) after being convicted of two counts of misdemeanor battery against two women.[153] In 2005 Mayweather pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor battery charge after kicking a bouncer, receiving a 90-day suspended jail sentence.[154]
On September 9, 2010 it was reported that Mayweather was being sought by police for questioning after his former girlfriend, Josie Harris, filed a domestic battery report against him. Harris accused Mayweather of battery in the past, but those charges were dropped in July 2005 after Harris testified that she had lied and that Mayweather had not battered her.[155]Mayweather was taken into custody September 10, 2010, but was released after posting $3,000 bail. Mayweather was initially charged with felony theft (stemming from the disappearance of Harris's mobile phone); on September 16 two felony coercion charges, one felony robbery charge, one misdemeanor domestic-battery charge and three misdemeanor harassment charges were added.
On December 21, 2011, a judge sentenced Mayweather to serve 90 days in the county jail for battery upon his ex-girlfriend in September 2010. Mayweather reached a deal with prosecutors in which he pled guilty to misdemeanor battery in exchange for prosecutors dropping the felony battery charge. Mayweather also pled no contest to two counts of misdemeanor harassment, stemming from threats to his children. In addition to the 90-day sentence Mayweather was ordered to complete 100 hours of community service, a 12-month domestic-violence program and to pay a fine of $2,500.[156] On June 1 Mayweather began serving his county jail sentence,[157] and was released in August 2012.
Deigo Maradona
Is this how we want our players to finish up?

Mario Balotelli
Off-field activities involving Balotelli have included driving into a women's prison in Italy to "have a look round",[132] throwing darts at a youth team player during a training ground 'prank',[133] and stopping in at a Manchester Xaverian Sixth Form College because he needed the toilet

On 17 December 2012, it was announced Balotelli had taken Manchester City to a Premier League tribunal to protest a fine of two weeks' wages.[
This is what you get for not stamping on this crap.

Michael Vick - Prison

Dennis Rodman - Home detention etc etc

I assume your point is that if you dont make them toe the line in their playing lives they aren't going to have useful, worthwhile, fulfilled lives contributing more generally to society, either.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

your point is that if you dont make them toe the line in their playing lives they aren't going to have useful, worthwhile, fulfilled lives contributing more generally to society, either.

I wasn't trying to make a point, I was simply listing players with huge off field issues who were successful in reply to your query.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I wasn't trying to make a point, I was simply listing players with huge off field issues who were successful in reply to your query.

That was my point: we evidently have different definitions of success.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I've been thinking about the centres lately, and was wondering what made Herbert so good at 12 and 13? I know he was a bit like McCabe at 12 (crashball) but he was able to break the line consistantly, and at 13 he was great at giving the ball to who it should go to (Eg. Overlap, send it to the winger). But I can't put my finger on why he was so good at both.

The reason I bring this up is Rob Horne at 12, he played well against the Blues and with the Force coming up, I'm going to keep an eye on him in particular.

 

[Bowside]

Darren lockyer got upto a bit of no good in his younger days, ended up being considered a legend of the game.

 

[Bowside]

I think Quade is a flawed genius and until someone better comes up he's the best flyhalf we have.

 

[Bowside]

The force v tahs game will give us a better idea about how Hooper and Dennis are looking re lions selection. In my mind they both need to put in dominant performances to remain in contention, especially considering the force are fielding a second choice flanker combination of Hodgeson and McCalman.

 

[TOCC]

I don't agree with the sabbatical concept at all, 50/75/100 caps... It shouldn't matter, if a player wants to go overseas for a higher pay packet then you sacrifice the opportunity to represent Australia..

At best, for older players(more caps) they could offer them a get out clause if they aren't getting picked for the Wallabies which allows them to head overseas at seasons end.

 

[Slim 293]

I think Quade is a flawed genius and until someone better comes up he's the best flyhalf we have.

I don't feel comfortable with the term "genius" being used to describe Quade Cooper.........

Let's just say he's a talented, but flawed rugby player and leave it at that.........

 

[Bowside]

I think a 75 cap sabbatical qualification is a good idea, as long as the overseas club releases the player for wallaby duty.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Darren lockyer got upto a bit of no good in his younger days, ended up being considered a legend of the game.

Not enough to get into his wikipedia entry. Plenty of rumours.

 

[Scotty]

I really like how Quade plays rugby, but I am yet to be convinced his approach is effective in the top end of test rugby.

I feel he is in the same group as Spencer and Cipriani, wonderful talents but ineffective at playing the percentages in test rugby.

I agree with this, but as he seems to have the most talent of our potential 10's I am hoping he 'grows' into the right sort of player for tests. Similar to what happened to Latham. Last Lions tour he was dropped after the first game and many (including a lot that are now on this forum) didn't think he'd amount to much as a test player. He ended up improving his defence, physicality and decision making to become the worlds best and pushed Burke out in the process.

We can only hope that Quade develops similarly.

 

[Bowside]

Not enough to get into his wikipedia entry. Plenty of rumours.

None that anyone is game to elaborate on!

 

[TOCC]

Not enough to get into his wikipedia entry. Plenty of rumours.

Almost like those rumors of Andrew Johns and party drugs which were regularly circulated around Newcastle at the turn of the century..... Ohhh wait

 

[Inside Shoulder]

MMM, Mafi & Godwin.
Mathewson just shows how bare our halfback cupboard is.