Wallabies Watch

[Brumby Runner]

I think this game against the Cheetahs has once again shown why there isn't a single Tahs player that deserves a place in the XV against the Lions. Even Hooper, for all his running game, didn't make a dent at the breakdown. Gill would be a much better option. As for the others, Douglas looked hopelessly unfit and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a shadow of the player he was a few years ago. I think we can do better than both; Carter or Pyle spring to mind for Douglas, and Fainga'a or Tomane rather than AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). Dennis continues to be absolutely hopeless, as does Timani. The fact that both have represented Australia boggles the mind. They're not Super Rugby standard, let alone international standard. Betham does look like a decent prospect though, but not for this year.

Don't think you can make such a judgement on one particular game. IMO taking into account the form at S15 and test levels over say the past two years, there are three Tahs I think should make the Wallabies, being Robinson, Douglas and Hooper. TPN and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) could be considered but their form seems to be waning. Folau continues to improve, and could be an outside chance, but I still would prefer to see him commit to another two years before being selected.

If there are any more or different Tahs to these in Deans' team I will seriously consider not tuning in to the tests.

 

[Dumbledore]

I honestly don't think he'd make the Brumbies 22 at this stage. Good player mind. I hope he finds a regular position at the Tahs.

He definitely would. He's ahead of Rathbone on that showing and about on a level with Tomane. In saying that, I wasn't serious about him for the Wallabies just yet. EOYT for sure.

Paddy Ryan put his hand up in a big, big, way. Dennis is going to have to do something, and do it soon, if he feels like playing big boy rugby this year. Badly off the pace at the moment, he's been the worst six from the Australian provinces to date.

 

[Paradox]

He definitely would. He's ahead of Rathbone on that showing and about on a level with Tomane.

Sorry Dumbs not a chance that he's as good as Tomane who produced an outstanding season last year and has been impressive again this year. Rathboner is still very dependable and he would be selected over Betham by White. Robbie Coleman would also be selected in preference. Betham needs to string together a few decent games and cement himself - he hasn't done that yet and has been a journeyman for some time. He was pretty ordinary second half I thought. I do hope he works out and makes me believe. I always saw him as more of a fullback.

 

[Richo]

Sorry Dumbs not a chance that he's as good as Tomane who produced an outstanding season last year and has been impressive again this year. Rathboner is still very dependable and he would be selected over Betham by White. Robbie Coleman would also be selected in preference. Betham needs to string together a few decent games and cement himself - he hasn't done that yet and has been a journeyman for some time. He was pretty ordinary second half I thought. I do hope he works out and makes me believe. I always saw him as more of a fullback.

Talk of Betham playing for the Wallabies is far too premature. But he's only 24, very athletic and just had a huge ITM season. He was dangerous last night and perhaps the biggest positive to take away from the game. Probably cemented a wing spot for the Waratahs.

 

[Paradox]

Probably cemented a wing spot for the Waratahs.

Totally agree. Definitely won't be sidelined next week.

 

[Brumbieman]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but you have something of a reputation for wearing Fainga'a-coloured glasses. I figured Paddy Ryan might get less derisive treatment if we tacked another surname on.

Ah. Touché.

 

[Eternity]

The theory that several of the 'senior' Tahs have been incubating a culture of mediocrity which they have then brought with them to the Wallabies is gaining further credibility. The likes of Robinson, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Drew Mitchell and Berrick Barnes are probably the main culprits. These are the players who believe that their senior status automatically transfers to the Wallabies and thus that they are able to talk down to younger, more talented and more accomplished players from other teams. But with what authority do they claim leadership positions in the Wallabies? None of these players have accomplished anything of note. They lose regularly with the Tahs, and bring little to the Wallabies. Robinson might be decent at the scrum on his day, but the negative cultural impact of these Tahs players outweighs any benefit that they might bring. Frankly, neither the Tahs nor the Wallabies will be able to develop a winning culture until these 'senior' Tahs are forced out of Australian rugby.

 

[Richo]

Ah. Touché.

I might have had a few when I wrote my posts. Probably made a lot more sense in my head

 

[Dumbledore]

The theory that several of the 'senior' Tahs have been incubating a culture of mediocrity which they have then brought with them to the Wallabies is gaining further credibility. The likes of Robinson, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Drew Mitchell and Berrick Barnes are probably the main culprits.

So basically you have no idea and you're just making shit up because you don't like the Tahs? Which is fair enough, mind, they're an intensely frustrating team to watch.

 

[Dumbledore]

Sorry Dumbs not a chance that he's as good as Tomane who produced an outstanding season last year and has been impressive again this year. Rathboner is still very dependable and he would be selected over Betham by White. Robbie Coleman would also be selected in preference. Betham needs to string together a few decent games and cement himself - he hasn't done that yet and has been a journeyman for some time. He was pretty ordinary second half I thought. I do hope he works out and makes me believe. I always saw him as more of a fullback.

Yeah I wasn't entirely serious. The Brumbies do have outstanding depth. Personally I'd take him over Rathbone or Coleman, but I can see the argument either way. He did more than enough to earn himself another shot on the wing for the Tahs, if he can stay there all season who knows.

 

[Jets]

You have to find space at least for Robinson, TPN and Hooper in the 22 IMO. The Gill Vs Hooper thing is interesting but Hooper did very well at international level. Gill came off the bench for the W's and didn't show much. It could be Gill's year but Hooper hasn't got worse IMO.

There is no questioning Hoopers form last year, he was outstanding. This year he is playing well in a team that is struggling and I'm not sure they are using him to his best ability. Gill played almost all his games for the Wallabies at 6, a position that doesn't really suit his strengths and still was effective in my view. He has been the for Aust 7 this year and most effective player at stealing the ball I have seen. I think both have compelling cases for selection this year and I would have no issue with either of them being picked at 7 with the other on the bench.

 

[Eternity]

So basically you have no idea and you're just making shit up because you don't like the Tahs? Which is fair enough, mind, they're an intensely frustrating team to watch.

Correlation may not equal causation, and Deans may be a truly inept coach, but those players I mentioned have underperformed consistently, regardless of the coach, over the past three or four years. Any team including one or more those players tends to be lazy and ill-disciplined at the breakdown, kick too much, have too many handling errors and generally lose more often than they win. Believing that this is simply a coincidence requires quite a stretch of the imagination. Therefore, it is most likely a cultural problem derived from an ill-conceived sense of entitlement. These players believe that they deserve to be picked regardless of performance. This attitude filters down to impressionable younger players. And then you end up with the mess that is the Tahs today. The Wallabies, on the other hand, are the product of a conflict between the mediocrity of these Tahs players and the enthusiasm and desire to win of the Brumbies and Reds players coming from teams which have positive team cultures, which results in the inconsistency and narrow, ugly wins that we witness regularly.

 

[Jets]

My Wallaby team, from what I've seen this year would be

1. Holmes - Underrated and has been going well
2. Moore - Standout
3. Palmer - Best THP
4. Carter - He's been going well with Fardy
5. Pyle - Works hard
6. Cotrell - Been impressive
7. Gill - See post above.
8. Mowen - No real standouts at 8 and he needs to be in the team
9. White - Standout
10. Cooper - Been quiet but have seen patches of good stuff
11. Ioane - Does his job well
12. Tapuai - Been good and suits Cooper
13. Not really sure. No standouts.
14. Mafi - Looked good in the early weeks
15. JOC (James O'Connor) - He's growing on me at 15 but Mogg could be here too

16. Fainga'a - Found some form
17. Slipper - Been going well
18. Fardy - Has been good. MMM would be close
19. Hooper - Good in under preforming team
20. Phipps - Not many options here
21. Lealilifano - Has been good but not in 2012 form
22. Mogg - Has impressed me

 

[Dumbledore]

Correlation may not equal causation, and Deans may be a truly inept coach, but those players I mentioned have underperformed consistently, regardless of the coach, over the past three or four years. Any team including one or more those players tends to be lazy and ill-disciplined at the breakdown, kick too much, have too many handling errors and generally lose more often than they win. Believing that this is simply a coincidence requires quite a stretch of the imagination. Therefore, it is most likely a cultural problem derived from an ill-conceived sense of entitlement. These players believe that they deserve to be picked regardless of performance. This attitude filters down to impressionable younger players. And then you end up with the mess that is the Tahs today. The Wallabies, on the other hand, are the product of a conflict between the mediocrity of these Tahs players and the enthusiasm and desire to win of the Brumbies and Reds players coming from teams which have positive team cultures, which results in the inconsistency and narrow, ugly wins that we witness regularly.

Anything you'd like to add after tonights effort? That winning culture really came through.

 

[Paradox]

Turning into a dark weekend for Oz rugby...Go Brumbies. The 10 position for Oz is become an issue. Cooper was poor.

 

[gel]

QC (Quade Cooper) should not be in the wallaby squad, let alone the run on team, based on his form form last year and this - he really needs to lift his game immeasurably.

To be fair and only pick on super rugby form from this year (which was the opening premise of this thread) I would be hard pressed picking any player outside of the Brumbies at the moment.

The rest are pretty much average, or worse.

 

[cyclopath]

Correlation may not equal causation, and Deans may be a truly inept coach, but those players I mentioned have underperformed consistently, regardless of the coach, over the past three or four years. Any team including one or more those players tends to be lazy and ill-disciplined at the breakdown, kick too much, have too many handling errors and generally lose more often than they win. Believing that this is simply a coincidence requires quite a stretch of the imagination. Therefore, it is most likely a cultural problem derived from an ill-conceived sense of entitlement. These players believe that they deserve to be picked regardless of performance. This attitude filters down to impressionable younger players. And then you end up with the mess that is the Tahs today. The Wallabies, on the other hand, are the product of a conflict between the mediocrity of these Tahs players and the enthusiasm and desire to win of the Brumbies and Reds players coming from teams which have positive team cultures, which results in the inconsistency and narrow, ugly wins that we witness regularly.

Righhhhttttt. So players believing they should be picked leads to such and that is the nub of the Wallabies' problems. Perhaps one of the more idiotic propositions I have seen. Do you get long wave reception on that tinfoil beanie? Or is it just AM talkback...?

 

[Forcefield]

I hope the Force eventually look at Godwin as a 10. IMHO he is the closest thing we've had to Stephen Larkham.

 

[qwerty51]

Only when he can goal kick

 

[Bairdy]

I think they are easing him into it by playing him out wider, so he becomes a lot more confident and experienced. Like what occurred with Carter, and Cooper if I recall?