Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Is Lilo big enough for a test match 12 given what we ask of a 12 in this country?
Wallabies Watch
- Thread starter qwerty51
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Is Lilo big enough for a test match 12 given what we ask of a 12 in this country?
T
Train Without a Station
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What part of JOC (James O'Connor)'s performance on the 2011 EOYT showed him to be a test quality 10? He looked like a kid in under 9's being thrown the ball and running rings around the defence. It's a stretch to say he controlled the game and set up runners outside of him well. Just because he looks good when he plays 10, does not make him a good 10. And as for his supposed great defence anyway who is spouting off about it, just go rewatch Pat McCabe and Tom Carter showing him up at 12 in 2012.
Great ball runner, excellent at feeding support players and a couragous tackler. Not a 10 nor 12 though.
Great ball runner, excellent at feeding support players and a couragous tackler. Not a 10 nor 12 though.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
He's about the same size as Tapuai and MCCabe........
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
I'd probably go with Lilo on the bench with taps starting.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I think Taps has shown more as a genuine 12. No more playing test players out of position please.
This is such a tenuous point though. What are players' best positions? JOC (James O'Connor) has played his best test rugby at 14 but will play Super Rugby at 15 and 10 in recent times.
Beale is the incumbent test 10 currently plays Super Rugby at 10 and grew up playing 10 but has played most of his test rugby at 15.
Barnes played some of his best test rugby at 15 last year and was probably the most solid fullback we've had in the last two years but has played most of his rugby at 10 and 12.
Lilo is currently playing 12 but came to everyone's attention at 10 last year.
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has played some of his best tests at 14 but has also played lots of 13 and 15.
I think many of our best backs are versatile and having as many of them in the Wallabies as possible is important. Many of them don't have an obvious best position. Just being on the field is an asset to the Wallabies.
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T
Train Without a Station
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Well let's just keep it to when we have an equally capable alternative with test experience then?
Dave Beat
Paul McLean (56)
I like Taps at 12, Lilo on the bench as he can cover 10, and 12.
This could get blown off, but, BB spending time in the Shute at 15 did him well, so;
When the Shute starts send Izzy back there for a handful of games, I think it would provide an enormous benefit for his confidence, and timing, and if that works;
JOC (James O'Connor) 13
Back 3 Digby, Beale, Izzy
And note at this point in time I'm not sold on Izzy, it all comes down to "if it works"
This could get blown off, but, BB spending time in the Shute at 15 did him well, so;
When the Shute starts send Izzy back there for a handful of games, I think it would provide an enormous benefit for his confidence, and timing, and if that works;
JOC (James O'Connor) 13
Back 3 Digby, Beale, Izzy
And note at this point in time I'm not sold on Izzy, it all comes down to "if it works"
agreed why I would love to see roberts at fly half for renbels and JOC (James O'Connor) Wing and Beale fullback for rebels.
BDA
Jim Lenehan (48)
During the Lions tour I'd like to see the wallabies play a no.13 that is first and foremost defensively strong. We'll potentially have a back three of Beale/O'Connor/Ioane and Cooper at 5/8 that is more than enough attacking prowess. Tuilugi will probably play for the Lions so negating him will go a long way to winning the back-line battle. Obviously AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has done a decent job there recently and is probably considered the incumbent. After AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), two names immediately come to mind. Fainga'a and McCabe.
I dont think anyone wants to see McCabe at inside, but mccabe out outside is much more palatable. The guy is tough as nail. He's the type of guy you'd want to go to war with.
As for Fainga'a, i cant say enough good things about him defensively, but unfortunately i cant remember him ever doing anything with ball in hand.
I dont think anyone wants to see McCabe at inside, but mccabe out outside is much more palatable. The guy is tough as nail. He's the type of guy you'd want to go to war with.
As for Fainga'a, i cant say enough good things about him defensively, but unfortunately i cant remember him ever doing anything with ball in hand.
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
I want to see Beale at 15 & JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 for the Rebels I think Beale crabs way to much & is much better when challenging the wide defenders. JOC (James O'Connor) is so direct in attack it would create even more space for Beale to try & beat his man on the outside.
None of the 10's have really done much to sing about so far this year so hopefully they crank it up before the Lions & we see some more tries.
None of the 10's have really done much to sing about so far this year so hopefully they crank it up before the Lions & we see some more tries.
disco
Chilla Wilson (44)
Outside of a RWC year it doesn't get any better, they'll never win the Bledisloe cup with Deans in charge so we need him gone.
P
Paradox
Guest
Made more line breaks, busted more tackles and made more yards than Taps despite playing one less game. Early days Qwerty. I just hope he doesn't break again
Brumbieman
Dick Tooth (41)
If we don't beat the Lions, Deans shouldn't make it out of the stadium.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
JOC (James O'Connor) for me needs to be the wide playmaker, so he can use both his running and passing game. That means he plays either 13 or 15, but with the likely size of the opposition centres, then 15 is a safer bet for him. I only want two maximum of the three amigos on the field at any one time for the wallabies, so that leaves Beale and Cooper fighting it out for the 10 jumper, unless Lilo gets moved there for the Brumbies soon.
However, I see the very real possibility of Deans player JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 since he is the safer option, which would move Beale back to 15. It doesn't make sense to me so I think it is odds on for Deans to go with that.
However, I see the very real possibility of Deans player JOC (James O'Connor) at 10 since he is the safer option, which would move Beale back to 15. It doesn't make sense to me so I think it is odds on for Deans to go with that.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) kept Tuilagi pretty silent during the match with England, I really rate him pretty highly defensively. I don't think he organizes players around him on defense like Ant does but he very clearly offers much more on attack while also being a very solid defender at 13 himself.
On JOC (James O'Connor), if he can develop a pass-first mentality he could be a good test #10 but I don't think the position is natural to him for that reason. He loves to run the ball, and good on him because he's brilliant at it. He has the makings of a good #10 in a physical sense, on attack he approaches the line with his shoulders flat and so provides legitimacy to options on both shoulders and coupled with his dancing feet he can shred a defense this way, he's also a great tackler regardless of him being on the smaller side. But that mental tendency to run first and then look for a pass hurts him as a #10 on the international stage. He is brilliant when he's allowed to roam from 14 and 15 and I think that is where he belongs. He is an incredibly good tackler but speaking from a physics perspective he is too small to play in the centres at the international level, it would destroy his body even if he was making all his tackles.
The fact of the matter is though that we already have a pair of test #10s playing right now (Kurtley/Cooper) with other franchise flyhalves beginning to raise their hands as well as the option of looking to Lilo, and also the developing talent (Volavola, etc) we have coming through. I just don't think developing JOC (James O'Connor) at #10 right now would provide us as much of a net gain as having him out at #14 or #15.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I endorse your analysis completely.
In terms of the way we think about 5/8's what is usually said about a guy like JOC (James O'Connor) is the more often he gets his hands on the ball the better.
I'm not entirely sure that's true. Up to a point it is but part of the option he gets at 15 is to get himself into the game at times of his choosing. those times are likely to be when he perceives he is going to have a chance to create something.
A good 10 should be on the job the whole game controlling, as best he can, the shape of the attack.
RoffsChoice
Jim Lenehan (48)
If it works, we'd be stupid to not have him. If it doesn't, we'd be stupid to.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
And he defends as good and strongly as Pat and better than Taps.
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