Wallabies Watch

[Dave Beat]

If he gets put at 13 and left there, he'll go down as better than Brian O'Driscoll.

Huge call, but I think the same.
It want be him as an individual player, it will the quality of the 11, 12, 14, and 15 that brings out other dimensions of his - as i mentioned ealier Roff and Andrew Walker provided potency out wide and created space and scored tried.
Disclaimer: will only see the true skills of JOC (James O'Connor) and Co if Robie Deans changes the game plan from the crap he's been rolling out.

 

[Ash]

Agreed mate, I've generally used the fantasy rugby stats but obviously they don't tell the full story. My post seems to have interpreted as having a go at Taps which I wasn't. He's a very good player. I think someone said both Lilo and Taps have been very good but not spectacular and I agree. I think it was Ash

My point was that you cherry picked a few stats to comapre Lilo to Taps, when a poster correctly pointed out that Lilo was not showing excellent form yet compared to 2012. I agree (for both Lilo and Taps), although I also agree that Lilo isn't in as bad form as that poster insinuated - he's been good, but not outstanding like 2012.

The point I tried to make with the stats was:
- it's only been a few games, so it's too early to judge anything with such a small amount of data points - particularly when one game can skew stats, like with Taps 101m or so run against the Tahs from rugbystats (one of the reasons I have been avoiding this thread so far)
- stats are dependent on the supplier
- the few stats chosen were cherry picked, I could easily choose different stats to show the other guy was better (where in my opinion neither has shown much over the other yet, particularly just a few games in)

I guess that just using stats to primarily prove x player is better than y player is a bugbear of mine. There's so much that stats don't show, such as ability to read the game, throw good passes, make the right decisions, and so on. Taking an example which you will appreciate, I wouldn't be surprised if some other flyhalves in Aus rugby had SupeRugby seasons where they had better stats than Larkham, but that doesn't mean that they are better flyhalves. (Not trying to say anything about Taps or Lilo, just rawly comparing players on stats.)

Based on the small amount of games and their current form I wouldn't select one over the other for the Wobs, other than Taps is the incumbent. Neither have hit their straps yet in terms of form, but one or both should have by the time the Lions series rolls around. If Lilo is in 2012 form, and Taps is struggling, then in my opinion they'd be crazy not to at least try Lilo at 12.

Incidentally, Taps plays the Rebels this week, and Lilo the Tahs. I'd expect Taps to do better stats-wise than Lilo as the Tahs are tougher opposition.

 

[Paradox]

My point was that you cherry picked a few stats to comapre Lilo to Taps.

No, I posted pretty much all the stats I was privy to on Fantasy Super Rugby other than no. of Tackles. You're reading a bit too much into this.

I agree stats can be abused but they provide a measurement which isn't totally subjective. Anyway, apology accepted

 

[kickbackkid]

I am new to this thread and i know it isn't exactly on topic but i got thinking what do we want our team to look like come time to gear up against the all blacks in the rugby championship.

I am not to sure about everyone else but i am sick of watching us try and outsize NZ in the pack to no avial and then put offensive orientated players on our wings who see the ball once in a blue moon because both of our centers are incapable of passing the ball.

So with that in mind i decided i would write a team of players who would be exciting to watch and also give us a better chance IMO against the all blacks. please do tell me what you think.

1.Alexander
2.Robinson
3.Slipper
4.Pyle
5.Horwill
6.Pocock
7.Gill
8.Hooper

9.Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.Lealifano
13.Folau
14.O'Connor
15.Beale

alright i will try to justify this but to me it just seems right but here we go

FRONT ROW
We can NOT outsize or/and out muscle the All Blacks so we bother to put people like salesi Mafu in the team (2011). We can however pick players who are sound at the set piece and have mobility to let the back line operate at a first pace. I also picked these guys for there tackle and hit ups numbers which are head and shoulders above the rest Australia has on offer.

SECOND ROW
I am not a fan of thoose lanky second rowers that struggle to seal the balls at breakdowns and are useless at hitting the ball up. I prefer to see the strongest 2m tall players on offer representing my country. These two will always make the advantage line, push well in the scrums, and are good at there work at the lineouts.

BACKROW
I must apologize i just couldn't resist doing this. I LOVE the idea of having 3 of the worlds finest pilfers running round for the one team making the ball filthy at NZ breakdowns. I also i felt i needed to pick work horses in the backrow for the backline to play the expansive rugby that i designed them to play. that ruled out the likes of Higgonbotham and Dave Dennis who are often caught waiting out on the wing/outside backs.

HALVES
Genia and Cooper have been a lethal combo at super rugby level but have never been able to convert it to the big stage. I believe his centers have been the problem. especially McCabe i mean he doesnt run lines except off set pieces and he never draws extra defense he is just big and quick and for my team that doesnt cut it.

CENTRES
These excite me the most. well mostly Folau. Outside has been our weakest position for God knows how long so when we get a convert from league/AFL who has the size and the skills to become one of the best outside centers of all time, why do we try and turn him into a fullback. Just watch some of those origin videos of Folau playing centers it takes 2 to tackle him and even then he gets the ball away half the time. Lealifano is the most essential piece to my back line, i have piled all the inconsistant but sometimes brilliant playmakers in Australia in one team i need someone who is capable of organising the backline when it falls to shit and who can through good cut balls if we need to spread quick and that is what Lelifano is.

OUTSIDE BACKS
I will admit i have a huge flaw in my outside backs we are going to struggle under the high except JOC (James O'Connor) on occasion. Folau will need to try and help out, also like the reds do i am going to have Quade sit at fullback in defense for all of his flaws the kid can catch. Now the positives I have the hardest runner in rugby(Digby). I have one of the best playmakers at 15(Kurtley) and i have a pretty boy who can run on my other wing what more do you want

this team is designed to play really high pace rugby to tire out those all black fatties as well as exploit there wings who in recent times have had to do nothing but take high balls. i personally dont think there wings no how to play defense. Also on defense the hole forward pack are picked on defensive prowess and are bound to get turnovers expically if they spread wide because Gill Pocock and Hooper will be the first three at the ruck. So this team will hopefully limite opposition to play tight cause i am not too sure how much testing i want my outside backs to receive.

please give me feedback i would love to hear peoples thoughts

 

[Paradox]

1.Alexander
2.Robinson
3.Slipper
4.Pyle
5.Horwill
6.Pocock
7.Gill
8.Hooper

9.Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.Lealifano
13.Folau
14.O'Connor
15.Beale

Your backline kicks butt but having no specialist hooker will be an issue. Slipper' scrummaging is a tad weak. Pyle...question marks over his grunt work. Your back row is way to short and light. Your lineout would be exposed with only 1 decent jumper. Enjoyed your post though.

 

[Braveheart81]

That forward pack would get completely monstered.

Sent from my HTC One XL using Tapatalk 2

 

[JSRF10]

Folau isn't a 13 and won't be unless he plays rugby for a few years. Having him defending the 13 channel wouldn't be pretty. Apart from that its a good backline although I doubt they'd see any ball with that pack

 

[something]

i actually really like the idea of Folau at 13. You're right, he was really really good at origin level & i think the D wouldn't be too drastically different. its not like he is retarded, he can read the game and with a bit of practice there im sure he would be a weapon!

 

[kickbackkid]

Folau isn't a 13 and won't be unless he plays rugby for a few years. Having him defending the 13 channel wouldn't be pretty. Apart from that its a good backline although I doubt they'd see any ball with that pack

Yes and he will never be a 13 unless he plays 13 and that is entirely up to the tahs. Also I don't think we should be worried about Folau defending that since apparently Rob Horne is good enough to defend that channel

Your backline kicks butt but having no specialist hooker will be an issue. Slipper' scrummaging is a tad weak. Pyle.question marks over his grunt work. Your back row is way to short and light. Your lineout would be exposed with only 1 decent jumper. Enjoyed your post though.

thank you I did make my back line first and then tried to make a forward pack that wouldn't get in their way and just let them play quick sideline to sideline rugby. plus I am very specific of the type of play from forwards I like Which might of got in the way of my judgement. I hate forwards who deliberately slow the ball down and I hate forwards who stand way out in the backline.

I could live with Timani or Simmons playing lock instead of Pyle and with Mowen in my back row over Gill. I don't like a lot of props that we have at our disposal but I would sub in Pek Cowan instead of Slipper and put Alexander to tighthead. I don't feel like I can change Robinson he is mobile and he is hard to tackle plus he has a knack for winning tight heads with his anticipation and reflexes I can live with his occasionally off throwing.

Thus my new forward pack
1.Cowan
2.Robinson
3.Alexander
4.Timani
5.Horwill
6.Hooper
7.Pocock
8.Mowen
I hope this new pack is more to people's likings. Feel welcome to post any changes you would make to this pack or my back line

 

[BDA]

1.Alexander
2.Robinson
3.Slipper
4.Pyle
5.Horwill
6.Pocock
7.Gill
8.Hooper

9.Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.Lealifano
13.Folau
14.O'Connor
15.Beale

please give me feedback i would love to hear peoples thoughts

I found your post interesting but these are my thoughts:


-I agree with paradox, I really like the back-line but i think the forward set up is way off. Rugby is a game that allows teams to play to their strengths and take advantage of the oppositions weakness. The best teams, like the All Blacks, are strong in every facet of play, be it running rugby, a set piece contest, physicality, tactics, etc, etc. There is no doubt your forward pack would cause havoc at the breakdown, but there is more to winning than dominating at the breakdown. you need some dominant tacklers. And who's getting you over the advantage line. You need a no.6 and no.8 that can bend the line. And that's leaving aside the massive problems with the set piece (the bread and butter of rugby). you have no hooker and only two lineout options...so basically no lineout.

I'm curious why you chose a third prop over a hooker. It leaves you horribly exposed at lineout time and a guy like Robinson is not going to have the impact around the field that TPN or Moore would. Presumably your view is it will strengthen the scrum. last time i checked our scrum was holding up okay so that's just unnecessary. If you were to play a third prop in the hooker position I would recommend Pek Cowan as he can at least throw (and is in surprisingly good form atm).

 

[BDA]

.

Thus my new forward pack
1.Cowan
2.Robinson
3.Alexander
4.Timani
5.Horwill
6.Hooper
7.Pocock
8.Mowen
I hope this new pack is more to people's likings.

Well it's definitely better. I wouldn't be surprise if we see that back-row on the field at the same time at some stage this year

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't feel like I can change Robinson he is mobile and he is hard to tackle plus he has a knack for winning tight heads with his anticipation and reflexes I can live with his occasionally off throwing.

Wait. You're not talking about Ged Robinson are you?

Firstly, he's about the 5th best hooker (at the very best) playing in Australia currently.

Secondly, he's a Kiwi.

 

[BDA]

Wait. You're not talking about Ged Robinson are you?

Firstly, he's about the 5th best hooker (at the very best) playing in Australia currently.

Secondly, he's a Kiwi.

haha it still makes slightly more sense than picking Benn Robinson at Hooker.

 

[Slim 293]

But then when has Ged Robinson ever had a knack for winning tightheads?

Whether Benn or Ged, kickbackkid is nuts........

However, his name might suggest a lack of understanding of what goes on in the forwards.........

 

[Richo]

haha it still makes slightly more sense than picking Benn Robinson at Hooker.

Dunno. Benn's got a pretty awesome pass from the base of the ruck. Bet he could throw lineouts rather nicely.

 

[BDA]

My Wallabies 22 for the first Lions test would be:-
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5. Douglas
6. Mowen
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.Taps
13.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14.O'Connor
15. Beale


16. TPN
17. Robinson Palmer
18. Slipper
19. Timani
20. Hooper
21. Dennis
22. White
23. Mitchell

If its a 5:3 split id go with

16. TPN
17. Palmer
18. Slipper
19. MMM
20. Hooper
21. White
22. McCabe
23. Mitchell

I'd like to see how the season plays out before the flyhalf position is locked down. An in-form cooper is obviously the best case scenerio, but im open to the idea of O'Connor playing at 10 if he shines there for the Rebels.

If Palu is out injured i go with

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5. Timani
6. MMM
7. Pocock
8. Mowen

plenty of aggression in that pack and three genuine lineout options

 

[Brumbieman]

Robinson
Moore
Palmer
Douglas
Horwill (if fit)
McMeniman
Pocock
Mowen

Genia/White
Cooper
Ioane
Lealiifano
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Beiber
Beale

 

[qwerty51]

Palmer does nothing outside scrums, yeah yeah I know pick your props on scrummaging but I reckon Paddy Ryan will show he's just as good this weekend. He's the best tighthead prop 'around the field'.

 

[Pete King]

My Wallabies 22 for the first Lions test would be:-
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5. Douglas
6. Mowen
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.Taps
13.AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14.O'Connor
15. Beale


16. TPN
17. Robinson
18. Slipper
19. Timani
20. Hooper
21. Dennis
22. White
23. Mitchell

If its a 5:3 split id go with

16. TPN
17. Palmer
18. Slipper
19. MMM
20. Hooper
21. White
22. McCabe
23. Mitchell

I'd like to see how the season plays out before the flyhalf position is locked down. An in-form cooper is obviously the best case scenerio, but im open to the idea of O'Connor playing at 10 if he shines there for the Rebels.

If Palu is out injured i go with

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Alexander
4. Horwill
5. Timani
6. MMM
7. Pocock
8. Mowen

plenty of aggression in that pack and three genuine lineout options

Think you have chosen fat cat twice. On a 5:3 split would you not be better having Lilo over mcabe on the bench as he can cover 5/8 and centres. feel that mcabe is a 80 minute player only. Personally I think that the backrow without palu is better anyway

 

[Lindommer]

Yes and (Folau) will never be a 13 unless he plays 13 and that is entirely up to the Tahs. Also I don't think we should be worried about Folau defending that since apparently Rob Horne is good enough to defend that channel.

For all his faults in attack Horne's one of the best defenders going around, his defence simply cannot be criticised. If Israel gets anywhere near Rob's lofty heights as a defender I, for one, will be ecstatic.