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Wallabies vs Wales - Suncorp Stadium June 9

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Schadenfreude

John Solomon (38)
Barnes played as kicking 12 last night, despite wearing 10. Genia made all the running and did all the distributing. Good job Robbie, worked well and to both their strengths. Won't work when the pack is struggling though.

Barnes played the best all round game I've seen in a long time. That's his style of game, he doesn't have Cooper's flair, but last night's display was brilliant.

With both halves kicking, passing and running both ways, the defense will always be in two minds. That's how Australia should always play.

If that's Deans' "play what's in front of you" laid over a little more structure, I'm all for it.
 

Athilnaur

Arch Winning (36)
I think Deans wants a hard direct runner at 12 who can also provide good ball carrier support up the middle, so I doubt McCabe will be moved. I also think he still needs time focused at 12.

Re Horne, I wondered if he was hoping to draw the tackler and offload, either way it was poor rugby for an otherwise good game.

One player I thought did well who hasn't been mentioned much was AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper). So reliable under the high ball. If he learnt to pass people into space he'd be scary good.

My biggest nod goes to the forwards. They created the platform that unlocked Genia.

Ath.
 

Wallatahs

Allen Oxlade (6)
Great win but still not convincing by any means.

Genia, Higgers and McCabe played 'A" games and to me were the point of difference.
Berrick finallly has some form back.
Digby has great g0-forward, leg drive blah blah but is horrible in the skills department - ball security is poor

Scrums were belted by the Welsh. Robbo gave away 2 penalties in first half and lucky not a third for early enagagement. Both props were absolutely poor around paddock. Alexander made no impact when he replaced Robbo at 60m mark. Whilst Kepu played very average any calls for Palmer are way too early. TPN was better but Moore deserves to be run-on with TPN the impact off bench. Hooper made that required impact from the bench - jeez he has balance and leg drive

My team for Melbourne
1 Slipper
2 Moore
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Sharpe
6 Dennis
7 Pocock
8 Higgers
9 Genia
10 Barnes
11 Ioane
12 McCabe
13 Horne
14 Shipperley
15 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

TPN, Alexander, Douglas, Palu, Hooper, Lucas, Faainga.
(like Lucas's ability to cover multiple positions)

Reckon Robbie would have had a good evening last night. Shit, was he under the pump !!!!!
I like and agree with your backline, but I doubt Ship will get a crack (unfortunately). At the Reds breakfast on Friday he said that he hasn't been asked to follow them down to Melbourne, and will instead join the Reds in their trial up the coast.

I think Beale at 15 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to Vuna's wing looks like the obvious changes (as someone has alluded to above).

As for the forward pack, I agree with Moore for TPN - I think TPN only started the Wales match because it would have been too mch for him to backup after playing close to 80 minutes for the Tahs on Saturday.

I think Robinson needs to be in there somewhere, if not for Slipper, then Alexander. Also, as you've suggested, Kepu inst doing a lot to keep Palmer out of the TH role, but it might just be a bit too early for Deans to make the change.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Massive overreaction, followed by an even bigger generalisation.

Moore was MOTM the previous week and looked good when he came off the bench last night.

He's been the better test players for years now, one of the Wallabies' consistently better players during that time, and his form this year has him miles ahead of any other hooker in the country.

I'm glad TPN played well last night so Moore could get a rest, but Moore is quite obviously the better all round player. And an 80 minute player to boot.

Otherwise, I'm happy to keep the same XV...

Going back to my first post. You're not familiar with sarcasm are you? And before you tell me that is the lowest form of humour, it wasn't intended to be humourous.

Generalisation you say. Well, like yourself (I've seen you on PR) I tend to drop in across a few platforms and which group of fans are forever critical of the likes of Palu and TPN more so than any other? It's no generalisation.

Furthermore, at no stage did I say TPN was a better player. That would be silly as Moore is a fine hooker. What I did say was TPN provides a greater level of athleticism at the beginning of the game particularly at the tempo we play at when we play it and provides a different skillset. I also said that I thought Moore finished games better as he operates more efficiently than TPN in the tight. I didn't need the whole 'Moore was MotM' or 'has been the better player' diatribe as I have actually never criticized Moore or his performance.

It's a horse's for courses argument. If the game looks to be a tight one Moore starts with TPN to come on later, particularly against the likes of the English and Saffers, to add an increased level of athleticism near the end when players are being to tire and vice versa. It isn't a TPN vs Moore argument from my perspective. As far as I'm concerned their a complementary combination.

Swapping TPN for Moore to start against the Welsh makes no sense as best demonstrated last night and during their 6Ns campaign, the Welsh are a team that builds into a game and tighten things up. That's when you need Moore to come into the picture.

I'm just sick of hearing the constant and undue criticism of TPN.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Going back to my first post. You're not familiar with sarcasm are you? And before you tell me that is the lowest form of humour, it wasn't intended to be humourous.

Generalisation you say. Well, like yourself (I've seen you on PR) I tend to drop in across a few platformsand which group of fans are forever critical of the likes of Palu and TPN more so than any other? It's no generalisation.

I'm sure I won't be the only one to spot the irony... :p
 
W

What2040

Guest
I like and agree with your backline, but I doubt Ship will get a crack (unfortunately). At the Reds breakfast on Friday he said that he hasn't been asked to follow them down to Melbourne, and will instead join the Reds in their trial up the coast.

I think Beale at 15 and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to Vuna's wing looks like the obvious changes (as someone has alluded to above).

As for the forward pack, I agree with Moore for TPN - I think TPN only started the Wales match because it would have been too mch for him to backup after playing close to 80 minutes for the Tahs on Saturday.

I think Robinson needs to be in there somewhere, if not for Slipper, then Alexander. Also, as you've suggested, Kepu inst doing a lot to keep Palmer out of the TH role, but it might just be a bit too early for Deans to make the change.

believe Morahan not heading south either. Like Shipps and thought he had earned a spot, at the very least in the wider group. The biggest surprise for me was that Rob Horne was not injured (other than a bit of claret that doesn't count anyway) - good to see
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
I thought it was a pretty poor win, to be honest. Both teams avoided the break down like a plague and the execution in the back-line was lacking for 90% of the game. There was still no structure from the Wallabies. After the first 10 minutes it was pretty evident that the team who could get their shit together for 5 to 10 minutes would win the game, and thank god Genia did that.

We have to thank TPN for knocking himself out and jolting Deans awake and into action with the bench. I thought the bench added real impact and the Wallabies started to really dominate the contact when Moore, Dennis, Alexander and Hooper came on. That was the biggest positive from me.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
I thought it was a pretty poor win, to be honest. Both teams avoided the break down like a plague and the execution in the back-line was lacking for 90% of the game. There was still no structure from the Wallabies. After the first 10 minutes it was pretty evident that the team who could get their shit together for 5 to 10 minutes would win the game, and thank god Genia did that.

We have to thank TPN for knocking himself out and jolting Deans awake and into action with the bench. I thought the bench added real impact and the Wallabies started to really dominate the contact when Moore, Dennis, Alexander and Hooper came on. That was the biggest positive from me.

Love the way he charges into the contact. No regard for his own health but the way it needs to be done. And the leg drive. Our bigger boys should stand up and take notice of that.
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
I agree. I thought he was very impressive. I'd like for there to be a way for him and Pocock to be in the same team, but I just don't see it right now. Maybe next year when Higginbotham gains more experience at 8 (he isn't ready there yet) we can play Hooper at 6. We need a guy like him, and a few others, who just charge into contact all night long.
 
P

Paradox

Guest
Bench excellent. Who said Alexander made no impact? First time in the night the scrum started going forward when he came on and he belted people on the fringes.

Ioane, Genia, Barnes, Palu, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, backrow, and locks should be retained for second match. I would change the front row, move in Ant Fainga'a for Horne, and replace Vuna out wide. I was going to suggest Morahan come in but sounds like he hasn't been retained. If we can't bring in another fullback/wing, we could move McCabe to wing, retain Horne and bring in A Fainga'a to 12...but the way Horne stuffed that try was a disgrace.

Is Beale available? I hope so!
 
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What2040

Guest
Jiggles,
agree re bench but for Benny A - made no impact at scrum time or elsewhere - the standouts benchies were Moore and Hooper
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
The scrum was very poor from BA, I agree with that. But he did a lot more than Robinson around the park. The scrum was poor in general I thought, and it probably had a lot to do with Simmons and Sharp in the second row, but Wales were just to incompetent to capitalise.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
I agree. I thought he was very impressive. I'd like for there to be a way for him and Pocock to be in the same team, but I just don't see it right now. Maybe next year when Higginbotham gains more experience at 8 (he isn't ready there yet) we can play Hooper at 6. We need a guy like him, and a few others, who just charge into contact all night long.

It's a good problem to have. I'd agree that with the way he plays we could use him as a 6 as well as a second scavenger. But what to do with either of Palu or Higginbotham. Both had strong games and are worthy of their places. It may just be a case of biding ones time. Palu probably has one more year of Test Rugby in him. Swapping out for Hooper at around the 50-55 min mark (this would allow him to spend himself in that period) and move Higginbotham to 8 as in last night should really be the go.
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
It is a good problem. Higgers isn't ready to play 8 at test level yet, but he is the long term option and you're right, Palu probably has this year in him, although next year may be stretching it. Your idea of swapping out for Hooper is the way to go I think. Having Hooper, Pocock and Higgers (at 8) for the last half hour will probably allow each to grow into their test roles slowly.
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
Bench excellent. Who said Alexander made no impact? First time in the night the scrum started going forward when he came on and he belted people on the fringes.

Ioane, Genia, Barnes, Palu, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), McCabe, backrow, and locks should be retained for second match. I would change the front row, move in Ant Fainga'a for Horne, and replace Vuna out wide. I was going to suggest Morahan come in but sounds like he hasn't been retained. If we can't bring in another fullback/wing, we could move McCabe to wing, retain Horne and bring in A Fainga'a to 12.but the way Horne stuffed that try was a disgrace.

Is Beale available? I hope so!

I'd probably swap out Kepu for Palmer and bring Slipper onto the bench. Bit Harsh on Kepu, but he didn't add much around the park and Palmer is much better at the scrum. Slipper offers more impact and can play both sides better than Kepu who is pretty weak at LHP.

I still don't like Sharpe/Simmons but dont really see any other options right now. Not to sure about the Backs yet but Horne is out. He didn't add much, and fluffed a certain try which was pretty inexcusable.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
We were sitting right in front of the Horne 'butchered' try, saw it all dead on. He dropped it when he could have passed to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), but that's rugby isn't it? Shit happens.

Yep it does. It wasn't typical of Horne who is not known as a greedy player. I think that he thought he had that extra step or two before he made the decision to pass, or not.

He played well otherwise but all that said, he deserves to be dropped for getting it wrong; it could have cost the game.

The Wobs have a potential problem in the lineout with Horwill out and maybe even if he is in. Sharpe's time should be up, but he is probably needed to run the lineout and we're hanging onto him. Yet folks are talking about dropping Simmons, who has also dabbled as lineout boss at the Reds.

If Simmons is out I wouldn't put Timani in there instead. I watched him closely in Newcastle for a while and whilst it's probably not fair to judge anybody on that one game he looked like one of Browns cows.

People talk about players who had the kind of game he had and say they are lazy, but they are invariably wrong. It's more the case that they don't know where and when to make their efforts to have an effect; sometimes they even make an ineffective ruck hit to show they are putting in.

David Lyons had that problem big time and Simmons has the fault to some extent - but he isn't lazy. I missed the announcement that certain players were cut out of the 39, so Pyle isn't around apparently, but I would give Douglas a gig. Is he still in?

But I digress. As for Moore and TPN: I would always start Moore except in the unusual case we had last week. TPN is one of the best impact players the Wobs have had for yonks. You can always start the 2nd hooker at half time then have him cramp up and bring back the 1st one fresh. Many Super teams do it with props. Last year Kepu was going off before oranges for the Tahs and Baxter limped off at about 65 minutes and he came back on.

Someone said that Alexander was ineffectual when he came on. I thought the opposite, but I'm probably wrong: I frequently am. I think he has stepped up this year though maybe my original opinion was too far down to start with.

The next time Pocock has blood coming out of his noggin, which will be next week, I would keep him off for the full 10 minutes and play Hooper and it's win, win. Pocock is a freak of nature, but an extra 10 minutes rest in a game will do him no harm. Hooper is playing, albeit from the bench, like he was when he dominated the Oz Schools tournament as a Yr.11 player 4 years ago. And there is still Gill to come. Maybe we'll have to turn Poey into a hooker down the track.

Who else? AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has had faint praise for his game and it should have been stronger.

Vuna is not a footie player yet in the 15 man code, but his progress since last year has been encouraging. Getting his shoulder into moving targets would be a good priority and getting there to start with, also. Wales didn't get him under the high ball enough but that will change next week if he is still in the XV. Gatland would have been on the phone last night already.

It will be interesting to see the team sheet next week. If KB (Kurtley Beale) plays it will give us the profile of the real Wallaby team for 4N, less JOC (James O'Connor) and QC (Quade Cooper). It will also give Barnes a chance to play in his best position at 12 before they come back. Yours truly and others have been saying that since Deans used him there when the Wobs whacked the Blacks before my eyes in the first Bledisloe of Deans' tenure.
.
 

Mr Doug

Dick Tooth (41)
Hard to pinpoint the worst problem with your post, Biggsy.
1. Personal abuse is not tolerated.
2. As others have point out, Bill = the RWC
3. Barbarian is the admin, so perhaps he'll have to talk to himself
4. You've deadset murdered the English language so hard, I'm not entirely sure what you meant.
Neck up, indeed.

Cyclo, I would say many of us are guilty of posts sent late at night when we're either engulfed by the euphoria of a win, or wallowing in the disappointment of a loss, (added to being "tired and emotional"), which on reflection, we question the wisdom of our action!
 
J

Jiggles

Guest
Nice summary Lee. I don't think Timani is the option at 2nd row, but we need a bit more grunt in the scrums so either Sharpe or Simmons has to drop out. I would probably drop out Sharp because he can come on late in the game and add a bit more leadership when things start to get panicky, as they usually do at crunch time for the Wallabies.

Vuna is definitely not ready for test rugby. His positioning in defence was indecisive last night, and he will get caught out by the ABs who will target him very well.
 

Reddy!

Bob Davidson (42)
Maybe we'll have to turn Poey into a hooker down the track.

If KB (Kurtley Beale) plays it will give us the profile of the real Wallaby team for 4N, less JOC (James O'Connor) and QC (Quade Cooper). It will also give Barnes a chance to play in his best position at 12 before they come back.
.

I remember the same things were said about Phil Waugh back in the day, when you couldn't fit both Smith and Waugh into the same team. Probably not going to happen!

As for KB (Kurtley Beale) at 10? So you see him as a 10 definitely and not a fullback? Who would you play at flyhalf if all of KB (Kurtley Beale), O'Connor and Quade are fit? So AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is the man at 15?
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Barnes played the best all round game I've seen in a long time. That's his style of game, he doesn't have Cooper's flair, but last night's display was brilliant.

With both halves kicking, passing and running both ways, the defense will always be in two minds. That's how Australia should always play.

If that's Deans' "play what's in front of you" laid over a little more structure, I'm all for it.

Barnes had front foot ball, he struggles at the Tahs against rush defences when he has static ball and no runners.

Last night he had front foot ball, players running into holes and with the rest working off the ball, and looked a good test 10.
 
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