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Peter Sullivan (51)
yes, I was hoping they would show some more of it, the Reds boys looking for some blood!
Wallabies vs Wales - Suncorp Stadium June 9
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Muttonbird
Guest
When does the NH domestic season begin?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
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That still means that Barnes is at 10. I thought he played well last night and not as badly in Newcastle as some other people said, but he won't be getting ball with lipstick and face makeup on it against the Blacks. This means he will play deep and so will the other backs who line up with him. And all the yarda, yarda which comes from that.
All the more reason for Beale to start at 10 against Wales just to see, unless he is unavailable to play for one reason or another.
Hope I'm wrong if Barnes does play 10 against the Blacks.
muttonbird
Usually the Top14 starts in August and the finals finish the beinning of June.
The English Premiership and the Rabo start at the beginning of September and end in the middle of May
We've talked before about the NH starting even earlier but the TV broadcasters have been the problem with the EP and the Rabo (balancing their sport product year) - and the French do what they want to do regardless.
It's not just those competitions that fill up the calendar. Other comps such as the Heineken Cup and Six Nations have to be fitted in.
We in the SH have had it too good for too long. Now we have an extended Super season and the break in the middle of it we are discovering the dislocations that have been common in the NH for decades.
It will probably be us that have to adjust.
.
That still means that Barnes is at 10. I thought he played well last night and not as badly in Newcastle as some other people said, but he won't be getting ball with lipstick and face makeup on it against the Blacks. This means he will play deep and so will the other backs who line up with him. And all the yarda, yarda which comes from that.
All the more reason for Beale to start at 10 against Wales just to see, unless he is unavailable to play for one reason or another.
Hope I'm wrong if Barnes does play 10 against the Blacks.
muttonbird
Usually the Top14 starts in August and the finals finish the beinning of June.
The English Premiership and the Rabo start at the beginning of September and end in the middle of May
We've talked before about the NH starting even earlier but the TV broadcasters have been the problem with the EP and the Rabo (balancing their sport product year) - and the French do what they want to do regardless.
It's not just those competitions that fill up the calendar. Other comps such as the Heineken Cup and Six Nations have to be fitted in.
We in the SH have had it too good for too long. Now we have an extended Super season and the break in the middle of it we are discovering the dislocations that have been common in the NH for decades.
It will probably be us that have to adjust.
.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
Essential win for the team. Good game to watch from the stands. (Pity either the product or the ARU can't sell Suncorp out for a Wallabies' game vs a top international side now that rugby's so strong in SEQ. Need to do better.)
But Wales' recent PR machine's work was far better than its team's. Rarely has so much hype about 'the best Wales team ever to tour' and 'the 6N victors' produced so little of actual elite rugby in reality. Only for c.10-15 mins around the time of Wales' sole try was this team of good standard and able to compete in the SH; the remaining periods were distinguished by ordinary, low-intensity forwards work, a halting, ponderous attack, awful handling and routine schoolboy passes going astray, largely aimless kicking, and what looked like poor communication among its leading players. We're often guilty of not calibrating our pleasure at Wallaby wins with the actual quality of the opposition and last night the Wallabies were in part flattered by a team that looked as though they'd left Cardiff airport last Thursday. 5.5 to 6/10 tops as a team score. I'd give the Wallabies a 7.5.
Whilst I remain a founding Deans sceptic, we beat Wales soundly twice last year, and not at home, why would we expect a disaster at The Fortress? When Wales said 'we were surprised at the speed of the game in 1H' I was dumbfounded - have they not studied SH teams' backs in good flight off fast ruck ball? I reconfirmed my view of just how superior SH rugby is v NH when I sat through Wales' defeat of England at Twickers this February; truly, the game was rigid and slow and the standard of attack - Wales scored the sole try - was markedly of a lower grade than any S15 game between the best sides. Last night just sealed the deal for me.
Re the Wallabies coaches, a favorite topic. A positive and rare thing happened last night: Totality Tony, before the match, actually emitted a clear, concise, meaningful and critical statement about the team's play v Scotland, namely '...we didn't display enough physicality and application in the forwards...'. Wow. I have hoped that these new support coaches just might - pray God - be a key to a sustained Wallabies' improvement - they could only be an improvement on the hapless bunch of yes-saying predecessors (bar Blake) the ARU was forced to sack en masse post RWC. There's something about TT as Deans' minder and No 2 I do like, he's got steel in his eyes and seems intense and tough. Well, lo and behold, was last night not one of the best Aus forwards' performances we've seen in quite a time? Their consistent, fast and accurate work in broken play was the unlocking of the little master's huge talent and the foundation of the entire Wallaby success. Could TT be adding value already? Decent coaches make a clearly noticeable mark in 4-6 games from their start (just as 2010 Link did and 2012 White has), it's BS that it takes years to improve a team of half-decent players. Whatever, I'm now ready to get behind TT (seriously, despite Bruce's and my affections for satirising his mighty pre-arrival statements).
Genia was almost too much the heart of the team's win, he's due an injury. And he really was a 9.5 positionally as he delivered more than half of a 10's job as well. He's the right captain in waiting as he showed in 2010 and he'd better both Poey and Big Kev at team leadership if so trusted. BB doesn't have to play the saviour's role in gold as I'm sure he feels he has to in blue, he relaxes more in the former jersey, you can see it in his face. So he performs to his natural strengths and fears less, paradoxically. Please posters don't over-celebrate Diggers; his uneven ball security and unreliable handling can negate his line breaks on a net basis.
Seriously, Shipperley is better potential Test material compared to Vuna, whose display last night was not encouraging, especially if playing a SH team. But unfortunately I sense a Deans 'he's my man no matter what and I know best' halo over Vuna as we have seen for so many others until endless sub-par performances are piled up. That Shipps has been completely dismissed from the June squad is madness.
Gagger and Bob Dwyer have brought forward their date-of-readiness to acknowledge Higgers' qualities from 2016 to perhaps 2014. I thought Palu and Kepu were great last night, and got too little credit.
But Wales' recent PR machine's work was far better than its team's. Rarely has so much hype about 'the best Wales team ever to tour' and 'the 6N victors' produced so little of actual elite rugby in reality. Only for c.10-15 mins around the time of Wales' sole try was this team of good standard and able to compete in the SH; the remaining periods were distinguished by ordinary, low-intensity forwards work, a halting, ponderous attack, awful handling and routine schoolboy passes going astray, largely aimless kicking, and what looked like poor communication among its leading players. We're often guilty of not calibrating our pleasure at Wallaby wins with the actual quality of the opposition and last night the Wallabies were in part flattered by a team that looked as though they'd left Cardiff airport last Thursday. 5.5 to 6/10 tops as a team score. I'd give the Wallabies a 7.5.
Whilst I remain a founding Deans sceptic, we beat Wales soundly twice last year, and not at home, why would we expect a disaster at The Fortress? When Wales said 'we were surprised at the speed of the game in 1H' I was dumbfounded - have they not studied SH teams' backs in good flight off fast ruck ball? I reconfirmed my view of just how superior SH rugby is v NH when I sat through Wales' defeat of England at Twickers this February; truly, the game was rigid and slow and the standard of attack - Wales scored the sole try - was markedly of a lower grade than any S15 game between the best sides. Last night just sealed the deal for me.
Re the Wallabies coaches, a favorite topic. A positive and rare thing happened last night: Totality Tony, before the match, actually emitted a clear, concise, meaningful and critical statement about the team's play v Scotland, namely '...we didn't display enough physicality and application in the forwards...'. Wow. I have hoped that these new support coaches just might - pray God - be a key to a sustained Wallabies' improvement - they could only be an improvement on the hapless bunch of yes-saying predecessors (bar Blake) the ARU was forced to sack en masse post RWC. There's something about TT as Deans' minder and No 2 I do like, he's got steel in his eyes and seems intense and tough. Well, lo and behold, was last night not one of the best Aus forwards' performances we've seen in quite a time? Their consistent, fast and accurate work in broken play was the unlocking of the little master's huge talent and the foundation of the entire Wallaby success. Could TT be adding value already? Decent coaches make a clearly noticeable mark in 4-6 games from their start (just as 2010 Link did and 2012 White has), it's BS that it takes years to improve a team of half-decent players. Whatever, I'm now ready to get behind TT (seriously, despite Bruce's and my affections for satirising his mighty pre-arrival statements).
Genia was almost too much the heart of the team's win, he's due an injury. And he really was a 9.5 positionally as he delivered more than half of a 10's job as well. He's the right captain in waiting as he showed in 2010 and he'd better both Poey and Big Kev at team leadership if so trusted. BB doesn't have to play the saviour's role in gold as I'm sure he feels he has to in blue, he relaxes more in the former jersey, you can see it in his face. So he performs to his natural strengths and fears less, paradoxically. Please posters don't over-celebrate Diggers; his uneven ball security and unreliable handling can negate his line breaks on a net basis.
Seriously, Shipperley is better potential Test material compared to Vuna, whose display last night was not encouraging, especially if playing a SH team. But unfortunately I sense a Deans 'he's my man no matter what and I know best' halo over Vuna as we have seen for so many others until endless sub-par performances are piled up. That Shipps has been completely dismissed from the June squad is madness.
Gagger and Bob Dwyer have brought forward their date-of-readiness to acknowledge Higgers' qualities from 2016 to perhaps 2014. I thought Palu and Kepu were great last night, and got too little credit.
I won't say much about the game others have more than covered it. But I would like to make some observations.
- The Welsh fans were fantastic. There to have fun and were in great spirits before and after the match
- Genia was the captain of that side in all but name He did all the directing and most of the talking.
- The welsh played at a much slower pass than I'm used to.
nugget
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Agree, it was a great night.
When the Welsh fans started singing I thought it might be a turning point in the game. And us Aussies had nothing in response. There was a moment in the second half when the fans started up and Wales were looking strong we needed to counter them with a waltzing matilda and it just didn't come. The home crowd were so quiet last night. Was a fantastic game though, maybe we were all too enthralled or something.
Genia could be the captain of any team and virtually is of the reds too. Have heard Ewan say the same thing, and it's just that Genia doesn't want all the extra curricular activities that go with it like media and appearances etc, he shuns that stuff.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
There were some good things in your post RedsHappy.
I think Higgers is developing nicely. It may seem to be an odd thing to say about someone who has had some brilliant episodes already in his career, but I say "brilliant" in it's literal sense: bright or sparkling.
I just want to see him with a 2012 report card that has other things on it apart from "brilliance": things like surety, discipline and patience under pressure, good hands, hardness at the breakdown, and other things such as Dave Dennis performs usually week in week out, but without the Higgers' "brilliance" he will never have.
Higgers is doing well so far in 2012, though I wondered why, against Scotland, he ran the ball from the back of the scrum around the tight head side a few times when the Wallabies didn't have "right shoulder". This meant he had a longer journey and they were ready for him.
But his curve is going up IMO.
.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Agree with you Lee. I'm hopeful that by season's end, we'll be saying "Rocky who?". I'd like to see him take the eight spot and one of the other young back rowers, like Hooper, Dennis, Mowen et al get a crack at 6.
liquor box
Peter Sullivan (51)
I noticed that Genia was also the player in the huddle at various times that took the lead to pump up the team, I also liked the finger pointing to the Aussie coat of arms when he scored.
I would prefer him as captain
Mr Doug
Dick Tooth (41)
Mrs Doug just told me that Berrick Barnes' wife is 33 weeks pregnant and in hospital with high blood pressure, so well done BB to play so well with so much going on in your life! A great example to QC (Quade Cooper) and KB (Kurtley Beale) as to "managing your lives (and priorities) correctly"!
DPK
Peter Sullivan (51)
If you're not already saying that you should drag yourself into 2012 with the rest of us...
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
For the second test I would play:
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Douglas
6. Higgers
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Beale
11. Ioane
12. Barnes
13. McCabe
14. Shipperly/Morahan
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
16. TPN
17. Palmer
18. Sharpe (to close out the game)
19. Dennis
20. Hooper
21. White
22. Fainga'a/Horne/Morahan
Beefed up pack and a more creative backline to clench the series.
1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Douglas
6. Higgers
7. Pocock
8. Palu
9. Genia
10. Beale
11. Ioane
12. Barnes
13. McCabe
14. Shipperly/Morahan
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
16. TPN
17. Palmer
18. Sharpe (to close out the game)
19. Dennis
20. Hooper
21. White
22. Fainga'a/Horne/Morahan
Beefed up pack and a more creative backline to clench the series.
The_Brown_Hornet
John Eales (66)
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Others have posted my thoughts so I wont rehash. But a few things are apparent to me and haven't received any/much notice.
1. The first Australian try came on the back of a break by Palu. Palu again picked up the ball from a position as the ruck "pillar". It is my belief that if he plays the ball from that position he is offside. Vito and Thomspon did the same thing regularly in the ABs match.
2. The Welsh game plan was very well thought out and could have worked if they had executed properly in the first half. In the second it was pleasing to see Vuna sheltered/supported from the high ball so effectively. However I do not think that the Wallabies can afford to carry somebody who is so poor at one on one defence and under the high ball like Vuna, worse by far than Cooper ever was and the fact is on the wing he has less support when he misses his man. He is a great runner of the ball but ..... Shipperly, Speight, Kingston or Cummins would all be better options IMO in that order. Can the Wallabies afford to carry two wingers who are poor to Ok under the high ball, as Digby is serviceable only in this aspect?
3. After watching all three SH v NH games and some of the U20s games it is clear to me that Referees need to be directed to pay attention to the offside line at all aspects of the play. Too often the defensive line is no where near the last feet.
4. TPN's mission of self destruction continues. His tackling style is not only dangerous to himself but to others. TPN must be taught better tackling technique.
1. The first Australian try came on the back of a break by Palu. Palu again picked up the ball from a position as the ruck "pillar". It is my belief that if he plays the ball from that position he is offside. Vito and Thomspon did the same thing regularly in the ABs match.
2. The Welsh game plan was very well thought out and could have worked if they had executed properly in the first half. In the second it was pleasing to see Vuna sheltered/supported from the high ball so effectively. However I do not think that the Wallabies can afford to carry somebody who is so poor at one on one defence and under the high ball like Vuna, worse by far than Cooper ever was and the fact is on the wing he has less support when he misses his man. He is a great runner of the ball but ..... Shipperly, Speight, Kingston or Cummins would all be better options IMO in that order. Can the Wallabies afford to carry two wingers who are poor to Ok under the high ball, as Digby is serviceable only in this aspect?
3. After watching all three SH v NH games and some of the U20s games it is clear to me that Referees need to be directed to pay attention to the offside line at all aspects of the play. Too often the defensive line is no where near the last feet.
4. TPN's mission of self destruction continues. His tackling style is not only dangerous to himself but to others. TPN must be taught better tackling technique.
Wales Fan
Alfred Walker (16)
Wales made the mistake of picking on 6 nations form and not current. Both centres hadn't played in months (and it showed), this decision I guess was brought about by the unavailability of Jamie Roberts through injury. The two Ospreys centres who are starting on Tuesday are at least in form and have played in recent times. Big difference in being fit and match fit.
The only slight issue with refs I have and it happened on Saturday is the constant telling players hands off in rucks, I lost count of the times I heard hands off gold 7 - he's already slowed down the ball too bloomin late then. Not knocking Pocock at all, I've played 7 myself and you keep pushing at the breakdown til the ref pings you-thats natural.
Wales' first quick ruck ball was about 50 mins into game. Although as much to do with our naivety as your slowing tactics.
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The only slight issue with refs I have and it happened on Saturday is the constant telling players hands off in rucks, I lost count of the times I heard hands off gold 7 - he's already slowed down the ball too bloomin late then. Not knocking Pocock at all, I've played 7 myself and you keep pushing at the breakdown til the ref pings you-thats natural.
Wales' first quick ruck ball was about 50 mins into game. Although as much to do with our naivety as your slowing tactics.
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GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
Bad news for Toby but great for Gareth well deserved hope he gets a run.
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Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Yeah sad for Faletau to suffer a broken bone, he'll be out for a bit. Delighted for Delve the call up is well deserved on his performances for the Rebels even though the call up probably wouldn't have happened had the tests been played anywhere else, with maybe the exception of NZ. That shouldn't undermine his claim to a spot though, if he'd been playing as well in the NH he would have been in the original touring squad.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
I'd prefer if we clinched it. Clenching is rarely good for the bowels.
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