Wallabies vs Scotland - 5 June 2012

[Scotty]

Mate I remember people saying David Lyons would be the next Kefu.

The only 8 i've seen since Kefu, who could actually BE the next Kefu, is Vaea. Fotu looks impressive and pulls off the big hits, and flattens a few people in contact, but he doesn't actually make the metres AFTER flattening people. He hits them, Lomu's them, and then gets swamped.

Palu gets flattened by opposition scrumhalves, or has the Cheetahs No 11 run straight at him, and then into, and then THROUGH him. Then he runs over the Lions winger, and everyone goes into a circlejerk about it. For someone who is bigger than Kaino, or Reid, he's an absolute softcock, and one who's never performed outside of Super rugby or NH tours against Italy or Ireland.

Vaea is the only player i've seen since Kefu who can run into contact, bump someone off, and NOT LOSE MOMENTUM, so that he then keeps going and doesn't just go to ground 3m after the first contact. He's got a lot to work on, eg hands at the scrum, option taking etc, but he's got by far the most raw potential of any 8 i've seen since Kefu called it quits.

What made Kefu successful is that he didn't really try and do the straight run into people, he had footwork to go with speed off the mark, and tried to make sure to hit the gap as a first option, second option to off centre contact on the defender, and hence able to keep momentum.

No matter how big you are, if you try and run straight over someone, you are always going to slow down and if there are defending players next to him, you will get stopped.

 

[Gnostic]

The only Oz backrower who could run over people regularly was Willie O and then it was the last resort. He used wonderful lines and explosive power that only Daniel Manu and Illie Tabua have shown since IMO. Kefu was different in his pace off the mark and footwork as Scotty says set him apart from other Oz backrowers. I always thought Kefu played similarly to Zinzan Brooke.

The criticism of Lyons is a bit unwarranted, he was a very good 8 but never really recovered from his knee injury and IMO this was exacerbated by excess bulk.

 

[Ash]

Lyons was one of the laziest 8s going around, up there with Lauaki. Definitely a frustrating player. Incidentally, wonder what Dwyer would say about Lyons, with all his criticism of Higgers for his work rate being too low?

 

[Braveheart81]

Lyons was too lazy to position himself out in the backline so he probably largely escaped claims that he was a seagull.

 

[Scotty]

Di

Lyons was one of the laziest 8s going around, up there with Lauaki. Definitely a frustrating player. Incidentally, wonder what Dwyer would say about Lyons, with all his criticism of Higgers for his work rate being too low?

Did Dwyer ever coach Lyons?

 

[The Red Baron]

Funny that discussion have moved toward Lyons. He always had the look of a guy who had just gotten out of bed after a hard night of drinking.

 

[Ash]

Di

Did Dwyer ever coach Lyons?

Sure did. Lyons first played for the Tahs in 2000. Bob was coach from '01 - '03. Lyons was another guy who was massive and had a good turn of speed, yet rarely used his bulk effectively.

Lyons annoyed me because he had the ability to go missing for most of a game, yet then make a big break thanks to a decent step, good palm and speed for a big guy, then go missing again. He would then look great for one memorable moment, until you realise he did sweet fuck all for the rest of the game.

Huge guy, good speed, good step, yet he so rarely utilised any of it. I would take the smaller but harder working Kefu any day of the week.

 

[Manuel]

Lyons didn't do too well in Ireland, but had a surprisingly good season in Paris. By the end of the season, the backrow was Lyons, George Smith and Sergio Parisse, which looked pretty good/

 

[Ash]

Wasn't Lyons spending time at lock as well?

Good on the NH coaches if they upped Lyons' workrate, though. I'd imagine Lyons would fit into a pack where the tight five do play tight and do a lot of grunt work.

 

[boyo]

Lyons didn't do too well in Ireland/

I thought that Lyons played in Wales for the Scarlets.

 

[Manuel]

Sorry, I get confused at club level, as they play the same league.

 

[troxler]

Looks like the weather will make the Scot's feel right at home on tuesday with lots of rain on the forecast at present...

 

[Riptide]

I wonder if we took that outlook into our last match against Scotland?

The Wallabies were abject in Murrayfield and played dumb rugby. It doesn't negate the fact the Scotland are a poor quality team who couldnt win a single game in their last 6Ns tournament. Prior to that, they could only win one.

Deans has no excuses if the Wallabies are beaten by a lousy team.

 

[Scotty]

Sure did. Lyons first played for the Tahs in 2000. Bob was coach from '01 - '03. Lyons was another guy who was massive and had a good turn of speed, yet rarely used his bulk effectively.

Lyons annoyed me because he had the ability to go missing for most of a game, yet then make a big break thanks to a decent step, good palm and speed for a big guy, then go missing again. He would then look great for one memorable moment, until you realise he did sweet fuck all for the rest of the game.

Huge guy, good speed, good step, yet he so rarely utilised any of it. I would take the smaller but harder working Kefu any day of the week.

Thought so. So his higginbotham obsession is a little hypocritical, isn't it?

 

[kiap]

Scotland named http://www.scottishrugby.org/content/view/2878/2/

Scotland team (sponsor RBS) to play Australia at Hunter Stadium, Newcastle, New South Wales on Tuesday 5 June, kick-off 7.30pm local time

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 4 caps, 1 try, 5 points
14 Joe Ansbro (London Irish) 9 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
13 Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby) 33 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) 1 cap
11 Sean Lamont (Scarlets) 65 caps, 8 tries, 40 points
10 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 7 caps, 1 try, 2 conv's, 8 pen's, 33 points
9 Mike Blair (Edinburgh Rugby) 80 caps, 7 tries, 35 points

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) new cap
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) CAPTAIN 58 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Euan Murray (Newcastle Falcons) 44 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
4 Alastair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors) 41 caps, 1 try, 5 points
5 Richie Gray (Glasgow Warriors) 21 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Gloucester) 25 caps, 1 try, 5 points
7 Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) 16 caps
8 John Barclay (Glasgow Warriors) 37 caps, 2 tries, 10 points

Substitutes

16 Scott Lawson (Gloucester) 32 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
17 Jon Welsh (Glasgow Warriors) 1 cap
18 Tom Ryder (Glasgow Warriors) uncapped
19 Richie Vernon (Sale Sharks) 18 caps
20 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 59 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
21 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 1 cap, 1 conversion, 2 points
22 Tom Brown (Edinburgh Rugby) uncapped

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa). Assistant referees: Craig Joubert (South Africa) and Keith Brown (New Zealand).TMO: Vinny Munro (New Zealand).

 

[TOCC]

Ben Mowen has been added to the Wallabies squad

 

[kiap]

Ben Mowen has been added to the Wallabies squad

Chance of starting?

Possibility of Palmer v Grant in the front row. Battle of the rookies.

 

[TOCC]

doubt it, the back row is the one area that a Reds-Force combination can cover comfortably at test level.. Mowen might be in line for a Wales match.

 

[qwerty51]

strong side, only Denton the obvious out

why would Mowen start over Dennis, Palu, Higginbotham if he's clearly behind them in Deans' mind?

 

[kiap]

strong side, only Denton the obvious out

why would Mowen start over Dennis, Palu, Higginbotham if he's clearly behind them in Deans' mind?

Be surprising Mowen starts. But I would also be surprised if Palu starts against Scotland. Maybe Dennis.