Wallabies vs Scotland - 5 June 2012

[qwerty51]

I reckon Robbie goes something similar to this for Scotland, only using Moore, McCabe and Beale in the 15 outside Force & Reds

1. Cowan
2. Moore
3. Slipper
4. Horwilll
5. Simmons
6. Higginbotham
7. Pocock
8. McCalman
9. Genia
10. Beale
11. Ioane
12. McCabe
13. Fainga'a
14. Cummins
15. Lucas

16. TPN
17. Kepu
18. Pyle
19. Dennis
20. Phipps
21. Cooper
22. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

 

[Riptide]

Oh the hyperbole. Greatest ever 6's one of most devastating players indeed. Most overrated would be closer to the mark , along with disloyal, and possibly divisive. He had two good seasons in gold before going OS and playing his best rugby. People's memories are clouded by that.He has never been in the top three and arguably not even in the top 5 of the best 6's in the world.

Would be happy to see him go as he should never have been signed or perhaps only on a pay for play basis same for Vickerman. Now for the useless inept managers that deemed this pair to be the future of the tags or even a short term fix.

Gnostic, I get where you are coming from but I really think he was a superb player when he left to play with Leinster. O'Driscoll says he was the best player he has ever played with and he played with quite a few god 'uns on 3 Lions Tours etc. I'm frustrated that he didn't produce the goods upon his return but, like you, I doubt he was ever up really up there with Juan Smith, Kaino, or Dusatoir all of whom I'd select ahead of Elsom if fit and on form.

 

[Riptide]

These guys don't need much training. Basically all they need to know is the lineout calls and backline moves.

The Wallabies only have four different lineout calls anyway. They use a pretty simple 'magic number', usually an 8. Vickerman/Simmons/Sharpe calls three numbers, and whichever one the 8 is in is where the ball is going- the front, the middle or the back. The other move is a variation where the ball goes to the front man. Oh, and if they put in a cars name at the end it's a drive ball. So it really only takes an hour to pick this up.

And the backs have only three moves- overs, unders and cut 1. But they aren't called that (duh), they are called 'Electric', 'Light' and 'Orchestra' (Robbie is a real fan of 1970s orchestral rock). Again this only takes an hour to pick up.

You spend the second hour of training doing kickoffs and scrums, and then finish with a game of touch. Boom.
.

If it's really this simple, then I am probably more impressed with Deans than at any point in his Wallaby tenure.

 

[Riptide]

Scotland are the worst team in the 6Ns. They cant score and the Wallabies will be superior from 1-15. Grey at lock looks like a very promising players but that's about it. Hogg at 15 got some raps but he is inconsistent at the basics while good open field runner. The Wallabies should take them easily... No.2 team in the game and all that. Scotland will play hard, try to be enterprising but have too few weapons to trouble the defenses in the 6N, nevermind the genius that is Robbie Deans

Wales are coming here a little banged up with Roberts out and Warburton still recovering from injury (if he plays his timing will be way off). Christ, even Gatland is out.

Welsh depth is limited and so they will be in the same boat as the Wallabies with respect to scheduling. Wales really have some big units and if they get on a role, they will be tough. But at the end of a long NH season, they will just be off the pace, and energy levels will be lower. The Wallabies should win the series going away at the end.

 

[Tim&Bingo]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...is-convinced-his-side-can-beat-Australia.html

Sweaties to spank the Aussies it seems! It can't be a Wallaby 1st XV that'll be running out will it?

 

[kiap]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...is-convinced-his-side-can-beat-Australia.html

Sweaties to spank the Aussies it seems! It can't be a Wallaby 1st XV that'll be running out will it?

"I believe if we play as well as we can, we can beat any team in world rugby."

... Not only the Aussies ...

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic, I get where you are coming from but I really think he was a superb player when he left to play with Leinster. O'Driscoll says he was the best player he has ever played with and he played with quite a few god 'uns on 3 Lions Tours etc. I'm frustrated that he didn't produce the goods upon his return but, like you, I doubt he was ever up really up there with Juan Smith, Kaino, or Dusatoir all of whom I'd select ahead of Elsom if fit and on form.

Agreed, yes and you have understood my intent better than most. The comment was about the Wallabies in particular ("Considered one of the Wallabies' greatest ever No.6s"), I was a fan and thought he had huge potential when he left and displayed that with Leinster but never has at test level on any consistent basis. At Wallaby level I rate Willie O, Cockbain and Finnegan far ahead of him. I have no doubt whatsoever that had he stayed and played his best in Oz instead of Ireland he would have had the longevity and performances to justify the statement, the fact remains he did not.

What compounded the issue for me and makes the statement laughable is the situation that he return to Australia and walked into the Wallabies without playing a game in Oz in that year, if not in contravention of the wording of the requirements for national selection certainly against the spirit of said rules, and then continued to gain selection without playing for the Brumbies. So many of his average performances since this un-deserved selection are excused on the basis of recovering from injury and hence running into form and fitness or worse 'bravely' playing with injury. Other more deserving of selection have been passed over, so obviously, in the hope that he will find his "Leinster" form for the Wallabies. So to say he was the greatest ever 6 for the Wallabies is hyperbole. I for one will be glad to have him off the books for the Wallabies and Tahs, the latter most importantly freeing up significant funds for somebody who will actually play more than a few games in a season.

 

[tigerland12]

Only just realised how poor the Scottish have been in recent years. They are no ranked 12th behind Tonga, Samoa and Italy, whils they are now confinded to a mid-week game in regional Australia before flying to play second rate Fijian and Samoan national sides most likely without their overseas stars.

They are really starting to go backwards, as opposed to other sides improving.

 

[Bardon]

Part of the reason for the poor opposition is that Scotland were not very orgainsed about their tour at all. Up to a few weeks ago the Fiji and Samoa games were still TBC. The Aus test was also a lastminute.com arrangement when they couldn't find any other Tier 1 opposition.

Ireland, England & Wales had tied up the 3 top SH teams, Argentina are playing Italy and France and the normal last resort of a north american tour wasn't available either. Scots should have planned their tour a hell of a lot earlier.

I'm not sure if either SA or NZ would have agreed to a hastily arranged mid week fixture before a tough 3 test series. Scotland had no other options hence their accepting a midweek fixture. As for Aus, Deans originally saw it as a good chance to play some players who wont see game time in the 3 tests against Wales.

But as we all know the possible embarrassment factor coupled with the pressure Deans is under to produce results has lead to him talking about guys playing 3 games in a week rather than going with the original plan of only using players from teams with a bye the week before.

 

[RedsHappy]

The most remarkable aspect of this stupid Test re Scotland (stupid as to its ridiculous timing in relation to ongoing S15 commitments and the important Wales Tests to come and the concomitant heightened injury and squad risks, etc) was JO'N's recent casual declaration that this Test was set up....'as a favour to Scotland'. Why on earth in all these circumstances and risks should Australia 'do a favour' to Scotland?

Even Deans this week on The Rugby Club seems sort of uncomfortable and a bit perplexed about the logistical and player awkwardness of the Scotland Test.

 

[Bardon]

Agree RH, the Aus RU has enough bad planning and administration all on it's own without doing favours to make up for the poor planning of other unions.

 

[RedsHappy]

Andy Robinson 'confident of upsetting the Wallabies' and 'repeating 2009':

http://mobile.news.com.au/news/scot...ng-the-wallabies/story-fndpt9s1-1226368530649

I hope Robbie is confident of 'not repeating' one of the Wallabies' most incompetent tactical performances ever.

 

[kiap]

I hope Robbie is confident of 'not repeating' one of the Wallabies' most incompetent tactical performances ever.

That was Giteau's nadir.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The most remarkable aspect of this stupid Test re Scotland (stupid as to its ridiculous timing in relation to ongoing S15 commitments and the important Wales Tests to come and the concomitant heightened injury and squad risks, etc) was JO'N's recent casual declaration that this Test was set up....'as a favour to Scotland'. Why on earth in all these circumstances and risks should Australia 'do a favour' to Scotland?

Even Deans this week on The Rugby Club seems sort of uncomfortable and a bit perplexed about the logistical and player awkwardness of the Scotland Test.

naturally I agree with this criticism of Jon but I don't understand what the favour is: we get the gate, the tv revenue etc etc.........anyone got any ideas?
Whatever it is it can be explained on the basis of JON'S push for presidency of the IRB: do a "favour" for a home union at the price of a few players as cannon fodder - no wuckin furries


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[RedsHappy]

naturally I agree with this criticism of Jon but I don't understand what the favour is: we get the gate, the tv revenue etc etc.........anyone got any ideas?
Whatever it is it can be explained on the basis of JON'S push for presidency of the IRB: do a "favour" for a home union at the price of a few players as cannon fodder - no wuckin furies

IS, I doubt the net additional P&L to the ARU from this Newcastle game will be too attractive, smaller stadium, lower per head prices (I assume), etc. I think the TV rights payments from Fox or Nine already cover all Tests that may be played, and so I doubt there'll be incremental Fox or FTA income to the ARU just from this added June Test.

The essence of 'the favour' is as Bardon mentioned: Scotland got themselves left out of a SH winter Test arrangement with any major nation, so scrambled together Tests with Samoa and Fiji, and to make a 3 Test series of it etc asked the ARU for a Wallabies Test to fit their SH schedule and so here we have the Newcastle fixture. I note that neither RSA or NZ are having 4 June Tests as we are.

Barbarian was 100% right: if we had to agree to a fixture with Scotland, then we should only have agreed to an Aus Barbarians side playing it and we'd then use genuine development players at a better date of our choosing, not main men crucial to our ongoing S15 campaign and to a proper preparation for the Wales series.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sweet - should have read the thread first: stick by my view as to why JON did it

 

[RugbyReg]

So I assume we've all worked out this will be the starting side v the Scots? All of the Reds and Force players in the squad.

15 Luke Morahan
14 Dominic Shipperley
13 Anthony Fainga'a
12 Michael Harris
11 Digby Ioane
10 Quade Cooper
9 Will Genia
8 Ben McCalman
7 David Pocock
6 Scott Higginbotham
5 Nathan Sharpe
4 Rob Simmons
3 Salesi Ma’afu
2 Saia Fainga'a
1 James Slipper

Bench to come from those left standing after this weekend's rugby.

 

[Richo]

I believe Deans said he'd abandoned the Force & Reds only strategy.

 

[RedsHappy]

I believe Deans said he'd abandoned the Force & Reds only strategy.

Correct Richo: he's moved onto a '...it's a Test and we must win it so all players from all S15 teams will be considered and used...' footing. How this obvious Test-respecting notion is consistent with the previous and recent 'Force and Reds players only as they have a bye' footing, has not been revealed.

 

[No4918]

Correct Richo: he's moved onto a '...it's a Test and we must win it so all players from all S15 teams will be considered and used...' footing. How this obvious Test-respecting notion is consistent with the previous and recent 'Force and Reds players only as they have a bye' footing, has not been revealed.

Smells like BS to me, he is trying to keep the lynch mob at bay by telling us all how much he respects every test. This has never been his theory in the past, see Somoa, where there was a few blokes get caps that are now struggling to make the 22 for their SXV side. Expect 19 of the 22 to be from Reds and Force.

What a crap test. If Scotland wanted to tour they should have been told to play a few SXV sides to keep them in condition for the last 4 rounds.