Wallabies vs England, Sydney, 3rd Test, 25 June @ 8:00pm

[Sully]

That is only because you are assigning the traditional roles to the numbers on their back. Apart from where they pack in scrums, and what it says on his back, Hooper is our 8.

In the last test, I agree the backrow was unbalanced. But McMahon was the problem, not Hooper. Plus Fardy has played two bad tests in a row - but he has been very good for us up until now and deserves another chance. In the first test, the back row balance was fine, apart from being short.

I would pick Gill in the 8 shirt. Again, working on the basis that the numbers are irrelevant. He would be the best compliment to the skills of Hooper and Fardy and works well in the centre of the field and in the tight. He is also a lineout option.

Hooper is no where near an 8! And no I don't assign traditional roles or Hooper wouldn't be in my side. I would pick my best players and then match, in this case, the third position to them.
What was missing in our backrow last game? Certainly not McMahon's style of play.

 

[tragic]

Not a Hooper fan normally, but from what I have seen no way would I drop him, he playing his type of game well. Everyone probably needs to stop assuming a 7 has to be judged on his fetching ability, there is s a lot more to the game than that.

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It's not just fetching.
Look at force fans stats table.
The last 2 games highlighted that we need to play a no 8 that has some impact and ball running capability, which means we need a well rounded 7 that covers most of the other traditional 7 roles well (especially with Fardy not playing to his usual standard)
Which 7 on force fans table ticks those boxes best?

 

[KOB1987]

Super rugby stats aside, Hooper is still not going to be dropped.

I reckon Gill & Palu will both be on the bench.

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Skelton
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. McMahon
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani/Kerevi
14. DHP
15. Folau

16. TPN
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Mumm
20. Gill
21. Palu
22. Frisby
23. Morahan/Lilo/K2 ??

 

[tragic]

Super rugby stats aside, Hooper is still not going to be dropped.

I reckon Gill & Palu will both be on the bench.

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Skelton
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. McMahon
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. To'omua
13. Kuridrani/Kerevi
14. DHP
15. Folau

16. TPN
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Mumm
20. Gill
21. Palu
22. Frisby
23. Morahan/Lilo/K2 ??

Really?
McMahon, Gill and Hooper all in the 23.
That's some serious 7 lovin!
And now we are going to add the line out to our list of liabilities.
We've already seen that backrow combination leaves gaping holes elsewhere. I seriously hope we don't go there again.

 

[KOB1987]

Really?
McMahon, Gill and Hooper all in the 23.
That's some serious 7 lovin!
And now we are going to add the line out to our list of liabilities.
We've already seen that backrow combination leaves gaping holes elsewhere. I seriously hope we don't go there again.

Fair point re the 7s. Leave Gill out and bring in another back.
Re the lineout, we've seen the lineout operate completely effectively with Skelton and the Pooper before but people keep banging on about it. It's just a matter of having variation.

 

[KOB1987]

BTW, that's not my 1-15, it sounds like that's what it is. Of course he may have been foxing at yesterday's session but he never has before.

 

[tragic]

Weve also seen the lineout capitulate without 3 jumpers and that's what people are concerned about.
England have a pretty strong lineout
I wouldn't take the risk unless I had a no 8 who can jump.

 

[KOB1987]

But we do have 3 jumpers. If Skelton's not jumping himself he can get Hooper or McMahon up a fair height.

 

[fatprop]

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Carter
5. Simmons
6. Fardy
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Phipps
10. Foley
11. Horne
12. Lilo
13. Kerevi
14. DHP
15. Folau

16. TPN
17. Sio
18. Holmes
19. Horwil
20. McMahon
21. Frisby
22. Kuridrani
23. Morahan

 

[Lindommer]

We need some ball carriers in close to get some go forward before we go wide. The Hask will be missing so some opportunity to exploit them around the fringes.
Not sure if Skelton is the answer.

Totally agree on your summation of Big Willie, JB. From what I've seen of Skelton this year (every Sydney Tahs match) he isn't nearly fit enough, the Pommy pigs'd eat him for breakfast.

Holloway needs to keep working hard recover from his injury to come into calculations.

corrected

 

[KOB1987]

Personally I'd go with fatprop's 23 except that I'd have To'omua for Lilio if he's fit enough. I just find a need to defend/support/justify whatever has been selected as I figure that the national coach has a much better idea of what he's doing than I do! Or most of us for that matter.

All I'll say about Skelton + Pooper is have a look at the second half of Bledisloe 1 from last year, the lineout worked a treat.

Anyway, I'm going silent on the selections now until it's announced.

 

[Joe Blow]

Totally agree on your summation of Big Willie, JB. From what I've seen of Skelton (every Sydney Tahs match this year) he isn't nearly fit enough, the Pommy pigs'd eat him for breakfast.



corrected

Holloway

It has been mentioned a few times but apparently he is not on Cheikas radar. That might change now. I think work rate and donttakeabackwardstepness are probably what he is looking for.

 

[fatprop]

Personally I'd go with fatprop's 23 except that I'd have To'omua for Lilio if he's fit enough. I just find a need to defend/support/justify whatever has been selected as I figure that the national coach has a much better idea of what he's doing than I do! Or most of us for that matter.

All I'll say about Skelton + Pooper is have a look at the second half of Bledisloe 1 from last year, the lineout worked a treat.

Anyway, I'm going silent on the selections now until it's announced.

I would have To'omua as well if he is actually ready, but to turn up at 12 in a test with no real form this season?

Don't know

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[Viking]

Everyone scared about dropping Hooper, just remember the GREAT GEORGE SMITH, our best player at the time, was dropped for relatively unknown David Pocock against Wales.

That turned out bloody good.

Cheika can just tell Hooper he is being rested on the bench. No harm done.

 

[fatprop]

Everyone scared about dropping Hooper, just remember the GREAT GEORGE SMITH, our best player at the time, was dropped for relatively unknown David Pocock against Wales.

That turned out bloody good.

Cheika can just tell Hooper he is being rested on the bench. No harm done.

With Gill leaving for France for a couple of years there is no long or short term benefit

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Cheika either needs to pick Skelton or Palu to start. The thing we are missing most is a bruising runner who can suck in some defenders and punch some holes in the defensive line. Either of them would need to produce a decent half of football and then be replaced.

McMahon hasn't been able to carry defenders and bust tackles like he can at Super Rugby level. I'd either move him back to the bench or leave him out for Gill to have a crack.

The problem with our backrow in the second test was ball running and much of that was security in contact. Lack of penetration would have cost us less if our starting backrow hadn't turned the ball over 8 times between them.

Across two tests (particularly the second test) we have had no issues enjoying the vast majority of possession and territory. For that reason it is somewhat hard to see a starting role for Gill. The aspect of play he is strongest at is severely reduced when we have the ball for most of the game.

I doubt Mumm will get dropped. I think his breakdown work was very strong in the second test and he helped secure a lot of our ball. Arnold could well be dropped though. He hasn't really had the impact he needs for the minutes he is playing.

Could we see Folau at 13 in this test? DHP hasn't been great under the high ball and needs to be more committed to it when the ball goes up but he's been the target for high kicks when he's been on the wing so not much will change there if he plays fullback.

His defence has been heavily suspect apart from one excellent tackle on Yarde in the first test. The one on one fullback style tackles are probably his forte though compared to playing in the defensive line where he has struggled.

 

[Viking]

With Gill leaving for France for a couple of years there is no long or short term benefit

short-term benefit = he could very well perform better then Hooper and balance out the backrow better (depending of coarse on who else is picked). Just because it is an unknown doesn't mean their is no potential for short-term benefit.

Long-term= he could be back within a year for all we know, and he will most likely be back before next RWC (one injury to Poey and/or Hooper will likely see him in the squad).

 

[Braveheart81]

Cheika isn't going to drop arguably his best player from the first two tests. It would make no sense.

There would seemingly more likelihood that Hooper will be captain this week than find himself on the bench or outside the 23.

 

[fatprop]

short-term benefit = he could very well perform better then Hooper and balance out the backrow better (depending of coarse on who else is picked). Just because it is an unknown doesn't mean their is no potential for short-term benefit.

Long-term= he could be back within a year for all we know, and he will most likely be back before next RWC (one injury to Poey and/or Hooper will likely see him in the squad).

Hooper is playing well, vice captain and simply won't be dropped

 

[Viking]

Hooper is playing well, vice captain and simply won't be dropped

I understand you find it difficult to drop Hooper. But if their is ever a time to drop him then game 3 of a dead rubber match is the time to do it.

Their will be no other time that is less risky to the squad.

After losing 2 in the row with the same personal and strategy, then now is the time to experiment.

Having said that, I'd actually keep Hooper and drop McMahon for Gill. But wouldn't be upset to see Hooper dropped.