Wallabies v Pumas - Saturday 17 September, nib Stadium Perth

[KOB1987]

Is Pocock available for the EOYT or does his sabbatical start after the RC and final Bled?

I was wondering the same. I read that his contract starts in December so technically he is probably available but it would be wise to start easing him onto the back burners (I.e bench) after the Bledisloe game I reckon.

 

[Viking]

Hodge isn't going to be moved in his second starting game, he will be used exactly as he was in the last game.

Cheika said in the press conference one of the things he was happy with was the way Cooper and Foley were working together; and if you go back and watch the game Cooper and Foley swapped spots throughout the game to good effect, as do Foley and Beale and I expect Cooper and Beale may in the future.

Here's a great article on why the Cooper-Foley combo still needs a lot of work:
http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/09/14/six-reasons-for-suncorp-success/

Although it was much better then the previous week, I still see them competing for the same space, instead of Foley letting Cooper have the reign's and getting into a running position instead (or vice versa).

The Cooper-Kerevi combo was the outstanding partnership of the night, not the Foley-Cooper one.

Not that the Foley/Cooper combo couldn't work, I just think it will take a lot of time to evolve - especially making Foley into a natural running 12. Personally, I think it would be quicker to develop Hodge into 12, and probably better for the long-term too.

Although you're right, I don't see Cheika moving Hodge in his second start - but then again I don't have to agree with everything he does.

 

[ForceFan]

I wonder if Foley's apparent drop in form from last year is associated with his off-season stint in Japan. Has anyone come back to full form after no off-season? Honey Badger? Brown? Kaino (now back to form but after an extended lull).

Add Ben McCalman to that list.
After the RWC he went straight to Japan.
He missed the Force's opening 4 games and then took another 4 games before he started having any impact on the field.
So many of our Test players are simply looking tired before the opening whistle.

 

[Viking]

I was wondering the same. I read that his contract starts in December so technically he is probably available but it would be wise to start easing him onto the back burners (I.e bench) after the Bledisloe game I reckon.

Why should we ease him onto the bench? While we have the worlds best open-side we should use him.

The Japanese side should take responsibility to ease him into the game from the bench instead.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think the article posted by Seb V above quite expertly explains why Foley should be given a rest, and why he is not really performing at No 12. I think the author has a world of credibility more than the few Foley apologists who appear regularly on these threads.

Of similar interest, the section headed "The commitment to the Defensive Breakdown" probably explains why some of Forcefields' stats on the workloads of the tight five appear as they do. If Nick Bishop is correct, then it seems to be definitely a plan for the backrow, especially Hooper and Pocock, to hit the rucks with the front rowers and locks staying in the defensive line.

 

[barbarian]

I think the article posted by Seb V above quite expertly explains why Foley should be given a rest, and why he is not really performing at No 12. I think the author has a world of credibility more than the few Foley apologists who appear regularly on these threads.
.

Sorry, but if you refer to anyone on this site as an 'apologist' for anything (player, team, administrative body), you sound ridiculous.

He's a rugby player, not a dictator.
.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Looks like Tom Robertson will debut off the bench this weekend and comments from Cheika suggest that Lopeti Timani could get a crack from the bench as well.

Congrats to both blokes if selected.
Is anything happening in the lock department or does Chek stick with Dougo Coleman and Arnold. Those 3 seem to be the long term option.

Still think Chek will miss an opportunity to improve the side with some different selections but appears he will stick with his starters and a couple of changes on the bench.

As said, mobility and stopping the Argies passing game will be the key.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Sorry, but if you refer to anyone on this site as an 'apologist' for anything (player, team, administrative body), you sound ridiculous.

He's a rugby player, not a dictator.
.

Semantics Barbar. I could have said defender, but then I thought he is a rugby player not a realm.

But away from such silly carrying on, do you see any value in NB's analysis of the current situation at all? And might you agree that Bernard Foley's form has slipped from last year and that it could well be related to his stint in Japan in the off-season? Could he do with a rest?

 

[upthereds#!]

read that timani will probably miss out, but based on the strengths of the pumas (massive runnings meters and involvement from their backrow) and their weakness (loss of direction from hernandez in the backs), I would say that THIS would be a perfect game for a 6/2 split.

16. TPN 17. Slipper 18. Roberston 19. Arnold 20. Timani 21. Mcmahon 22. Phipps 23. Mitchell

 

[Brumby Runner]

^^^^^^^ It will be a lost opportunity if Timani misses this game. As UTR says, a strength of the Argies backrow is their running game. A few big hits from Lopeti might tame them a little.

 

[Viking]

read that timani will probably miss out, but based on the strengths of the pumas (massive runnings meters and involvement from their backrow) and their weakness (loss of direction from hernandez in the backs), I would say that THIS would be a perfect game for a 6/2 split.

16. TPN 17. Slipper 18. Roberston 19. Arnold 20. Timani 21. Mcmahon 22. Phipps 23. Mitchell

Slipper should start though

 

[tragic]

Sorry, but if you refer to anyone on this site as an 'apologist' for anything (player, team, administrative body), you sound ridiculous.

He's a rugby player, not a dictator.
.

Apologist = someone who offers argument in defence of something controversial
Not sure where the dictator bit comes into play.
If the shoe fits...

 

[barbarian]

But away from such silly carrying on, do you see any value in NB's analysis of the current situation at all? And might you agree that Bernard Foley's form has slipped from last year and that it could well be related to his stint in Japan in the off-season? Could he do with a rest?

Yes, of course. He's not a 12, and wouldn't be playing there if we hadn't lost our top 3-4 options in that position.

I don't think he played as badly as some on here have suggested, but I certainly wouldn't be shouting from the rooftops if he got a rest.

Our backline isn't a seamless unit at the moment, but it's a bit harsh to place that at the feet of Foley.
.

 

[Viking]

Congrats to both blokes if selected.
Is anything happening in the lock department or does Chek stick with Dougo Coleman and Arnold. Those 3 seem to be the long term option.

Still think Chek will miss an opportunity to improve the side with some different selections but appears he will stick with his starters and a couple of changes on the bench.

As said, mobility and stopping the Argies passing game will be the key.

I'm actually happy with the way our locks are progressing, Mainly Coleman, but I think we should stick with those 3. Would be disappointment to see Simmons/Carter back in the mix unless injuries occur.

 

[Pfitzy]

Semantics Barbar. I could have said defender, but then I thought he is a rugby player not a realm.

But away from such silly carrying on which I started in the manner of an indignant, shrill child

Fixed that for you.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I'm actually happy with the way our locks are progressing, Mainly Coleman, but I think we should stick with those 3. Would be disappointment to see Simmons/Carter back in the mix unless injuries occur.

Well I don't think Douglas is playing to the level most of us expected. He;'s had several games now after returning from injury.

At his best he would be one of the first forwards picked.

Does he ever call lineouts ??????

 

[tragic]

Fixed that for you.

I have to hand it to you pfitzy
You are a master of self projection

 

[upthereds#!]

Wouldn't bother me one bit! Always been a fan of the workhorses starting and bringing on the big kahunas to put some shots on late in the game, stemming any shift of momentum.

 

[upthereds#!]

^^^^^^^ It will be a lost opportunity if Timani misses this game. As UTR says, a strength of the Argies backrow is their running game. A few big hits from Lopeti might tame them a little.

All blacks ran away with it late in the game when the puma backrow lost their sting from their ridiculously epic efforts in the 1st half. We have to anticipate this again as their strength and be prepared to weather the storm, then push past them. Having an extra forward like timani come on means that we are bringing on 2 massive bodies in arnold and timani, but also the dynamic play and speed of mcmahon. Seems obvious to me, but always suspected Cheika, unlike Jones, Graham, mckenzie and wayne smith, doesn't put a great deal of stock in doing homework on opposition teams in order to exploit weakness to prepare the most effective defensive and offensive strategies

 

[dru]

I love Nick Bishop's work but I'm not locked on his criticism of the double-10. Not yet anyway.

He found glitches in a developing relationship, that's possible with any unproven 10-12 combination.

I felt that Quade and Bernard were settling into a left/right relationship. The criticism of the 10 not providing a ruck support role could equally have aimed at 13. There was a marked improvement in defensive-attack positional shifts. Good to see. Nick notes this as well.

No doubt the double 10 is odd, and not something I personally would be pushing. But I don't accept that Bishop has provided a smoking gun to retire Foley.

The other thing to note is the Bishop thinking seems to be that if we use a traditional 10 set up, the Bloke in the slot is Quade. I agree. But does Cheika? I would prefer 10-12 Quade-Foley than say Foley-Hodge/Karevi.

In the mean time the double-10 is at least amusing and I doubt Cheika has squeezed all the juice out of it yet.