Wallabies v Pumas - Saturday 17 September, nib Stadium Perth

[Strewthcobber]

It's an interesting way of looking at kickers and one I like, but it rarely sees Foley rated well because his limited range means he rarely takes the higher difficulty shots

Great website - put the filter on Foley, and he hasn't taken any long range penalty shots, and he hasn't taken any shots from the more difficult right hand side.

Put the filter onto Barrett, and it's the long range kick and right hand side one's that he has missed. Sanchez and Jantjes miss from beyond 40m.

Don't put the filter on the mid-year internationals if you're a Foley fan!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'm confused. Speight has been woeful? He's at least made his tackles, showed little on attack but hardly a liability.



Compared to DHP who's let in 4? 5? tries on his wing. Speight has a history of being a great attacker, and he's slowly getting back to form, a seven stint would have done him well.



Yes and Foley, who after 6 poor games of leaking tries, falling off tackles, kicking horrible he finally showed a glimpse of promise, a glimpse, not a solid game, a bloody glimpse. Still managed to leak a try with an intercept and not only that, failed to learn from his mistake and make the same bloody mistake again!



Fair enough you ain't rating Speight's attack, but what I find strange is the inconsistent bias, why is Foley and to a lesser extent DHP not put in the same view when their poor performances have been much worse? Is it just cos they showed a glimpse of attack? Defence is half the game too!!!



And in form, Speight is a better attacker then both of them. (if he can ever get back to his 2013/2014 form).

Apparently DHP was a little better defensively last test. But I am not suggesting best to leave DHP on wing. Refer below for my solution short term.

The problem is I can't recall until about 2 years ago Speight being in form so no I don't want Speight in. I would prefer to move DHP to Fullback - his preferred position. And hence to accommodate DHP at fullback switch Folau to the wing if need be (until we have our Melbourne Rebel Fijian flyers as options). Foley has also had some form over the last 2 years and some very good games alongside the woeful games. Speight has just not convinced me at all he ever deserves to be match day 23. I personally would rather see Folau and DHP switch positions before considering Speight and reckon even Hodge offers more on the wing than Speight. Speight was very good 2 years ago but since then just offered nothing imo. I just can't see Speight improving and growing from here whilst at least even with Hodge on the wing see some potential for growth.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'm confused. Speight has been woeful? He's at least made his tackles, showed little on attack but hardly a liability.



Compared to DHP who's let in 4? 5? tries on his wing. Speight has a history of being a great attacker, and he's slowly getting back to form, a seven stint would have done him well.



Yes and Foley, who after 6 poor games of leaking tries, falling off tackles, kicking horrible he finally showed a glimpse of promise, a glimpse, not a solid game, a bloody glimpse. Still managed to leak a try with an intercept and not only that, failed to learn from his mistake and make the same bloody mistake again!



Fair enough you ain't rating Speight's attack, but what I find strange is the inconsistent bias, why is Foley and to a lesser extent DHP not put in the same view when their poor performances have been much worse? Is it just cos they showed a glimpse of attack? Defence is half the game too!!!



And in form, Speight is a better attacker then both of them. (if he can ever get back to his 2013/2014 form).

So your call out to Speight is IF he gets back to his 2013/14 form! And hence as you state he has for nearly 2 years shown hardly a glimpse of that form. And that is the rationale to support his selection. Maybe we should select Kyle Godwin then on same basis that 2-3 years ago had much better form! Maybe even Palu perhaps as again 2 years ago he was much better than he is now! See how illogical this argument for supporting Speights inclusion has become.

Nope - how about he shows some signs of his 2013/14 form so we actually reward a player with a test based on current form shown. Now there is a novel idea.

 

[barbarian]

Foley is the most consistent, accurate kicker the Wallabies have had since Elton Flatley. And I say that with no stats or research to back me up at all.

He's slotted a number of high, high pressure kicks to win us games.

He is by no means an all-time great sharp shooter, but he is certainly the best kicker we have right now.
.

 

[TarquinoColatino]

Yeah, I thought the same but this is the probably team according some Argie websites

Maybe Hourcade is waiting that Cheika announce his line-up to select their opposites, depending on the strengths / weaknesses of each one.

 

[Scrubber2050]

You can posture however you like, Foley is our best spot kicker and that gets you halfway into a team. Combine that with his 2014-15 form and hes 75%. Finally, no shining alternatives mean his place is more or less guaranteed. Yeah he's playing terribly, but once again we are forced to face the fact that there really arent many alternatives.

Trouble is the bloke who chooses the team has absolute man-love for the bloke and a couple of others. He seems to have tied his wagon to them and is not prepared to mix it up (a bit anyway) and find out if the alternatives are actually better than the incumbent.

 

[Viking]

So your call out to Speight is IF he gets back to his 2013/14 form! And hence as you state he has for nearly 2 years shown hardly a glimpse of that form. And that is the rationale to support his selection. Maybe we should select Kyle Godwin then on same basis that 2-3 years ago had much better form! Maybe even Palu perhaps as again 2 years ago he was much better than he is now! See how illogical this argument for supporting Speights inclusion has become.

Nope - how about he shows some signs of his 2013/14 form so we actually reward a player with a test based on current form shown. Now there is a novel idea.

Mate, I'm comparing their form to Foley - and yes I'd take both Godwin and Speight over him. To say Speight has been woeful is a huge overstatement. He's been average at worst, probably on par with Kuridrani.

IMO average form for 2 years is better then woeful current form. Woeful current form is costing us tries, average form isn't. Plus their is the potential that he will able to find that form again - risking playing him back to form (from 2 years ago) is a big ask but again, it isn't costing us tries. So it's a less risky option then asking a player who's in woeful form for the last 7 games to do better.

On current form, I'd slot in Morahan for wing anyway. But on current form, Speight and yes Godwin, are the lesser worst players then Foley. Not sure how that is illogical.

 

[Braveheart81]

Trouble is the bloke who chooses the team has absolute man-love for the bloke and a couple of others. He seems to have tied his wagon to them and is not prepared to mix it up (a bit anyway) and find out if the alternatives are actually better than the incumbent.

I'm not having a go at you per se (plenty of posters do it to), but I really dislike this term. Someone saying or thinking Player X is good, or might be good, or is awesome is not "man love" but just saying they reckon they're good. Calling it "man love" is pejorative, and I think most posters form opinions rationally, rather than in swooning admiration.
Just my opinion.

.

 

[Twoilms]

Trouble is the bloke who chooses the team has absolute man-love for the bloke and a couple of others. He seems to have tied his wagon to them and is not prepared to mix it up (a bit anyway) and find out if the alternatives are actually better than the incumbent.

Man-love bit aside, if the bloke has worked for you for 3 years, and got the job done more or less perfectly, you aren't going to ditch him for a poor 6 month period.

 

[Viking]

Apparently DHP was a little better defensively last test. But I am not suggesting best to leave DHP on wing. Refer below for my solution short term.

The problem is I can't recall until about 2 years ago Speight being in form so no I don't want Speight in. I would prefer to move DHP to Fullback - his preferred position. And hence to accommodate DHP at fullback switch Folau to the wing if need be (until we have our Melbourne Rebel Fijian flyers as options). Foley has also had some form over the last 2 years and some very good games alongside the woeful games. Speight has just not convinced me at all he ever deserves to be match day 23. I personally would rather see Folau and DHP switch positions before considering Speight and reckon even Hodge offers more on the wing than Speight. Speight was very good 2 years ago but since then just offered nothing imo. I just can't see Speight improving and growing from here whilst at least even with Hodge on the wing see some potential for growth.

I'd take Hodge and Morahan before Speight too. Probably even DHP who re-deamed himself last game. Although I do see Speight improving, he has never been himself since his injury and it takes time to recover. I think he is nearly there now. Glimpses of strength in contact shown in NRC.

His form in 2013/2014 IMO is just too good to ignore - he was the form winger of not only Aus, but the whole Super xv comp. Great on attack and defence. Offloading ability was amazing. So there is potential there - pending on fitness. I like to compare him to Mitchell, who was in peak before before his knee injury, took nearly 3 years to get back there. In that time he struggled to even make the Tahs squad before heading overseas. He found form again and I think Speight can too. I also think he was harshly judge in his 3 odd Tests.

I'd really like to see Hodge developed at 12. Or Kerevi - who I feel are much better long term option then Foley. Foley to be an impact player from the bench.

DHP, Morahan, Speight, can fight out the wing spots. Or even shifting DHP to fullback and Folau on the wing is decent option too (provided Folau get's involved digby style from the wing).

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Mate, I'm comparing their form to Foley - and yes I'd take both Godwin and Speight over him. To say Speight has been woeful is a huge overstatement. He's been average at worst, probably on par with Kuridrani.



IMO average form for 2 years is better then woeful current form. Woeful current form is costing us tries, average form isn't. Plus their is the potential that he will able to find that form again - risking playing him back to form (from 2 years ago) is a big ask but again, it isn't costing us tries. So it's a less risky option then asking a player who's in woeful form for the last 7 games to do better.



On current form, I'd slot in Morahan for wing anyway. But on current form, Speight and yes Godwin, are the lesser worst players then Foley. Not sure how that is illogical.

Yes prefer Morahan. We agree both not sold on DHP on the wing. I really would like to see DHP at Fullback though as yes good England series plus form in SuperRugby at Fullback means I really would like to see him at least get a chance to show what could offer at 15.

As for Foley I respect your views on him but I guess I have seen some glimpses of better attacking play (at times) last test that maybe just maybe he is finding his form back and at better position for him, ie 12. And only come around to that after last test with some of the positives from that test. Yes I know the 2 intercepts, but outside of those clangers had a better game. I know there has been a lot of criticism of Foley but he has at times shown imo quite a talented footballer at times over the last 12 months. Unlike Speight who has at best just had some nice consistent average games. I know which I would prefer to choose on that basis.

So last test to me showed at least worth persisting with Foley a bit longer imo. I don't expect that to be a popular view but yes is my view. Lets face it I think a lot more people now appreciate Beale - and sometimes it is until we don't have a player we realise how important/good they were. Godwin imo is below Foley so we will agree to disagree there and don't think anyone would seriously suggest he is ready for a test gig.

 

[Viking]

Yes prefer Morahan. We agree both not sold on DHP on the wing. I really would like to see DHP at Fullback though as yes good England series plus form in SuperRugby at Fullback means I really would like to see him at least get a chance to show what could offer at 15.

As for Foley I respect your views on him but I guess I have seen some glimpses of better attacking play (at times) last test that maybe just maybe he is finding his form back and at better position for him, ie 12. And only come around to that after last test with some of the positives from that test. Yes I know the 2 intercepts, but outside of those clangers had a better game. I know there has been a lot of criticism of Foley but he has at times shown imo quite a talented footballer at times over the last 12 months. Unlike Speight who has at best just had some nice consistent average games. I know which I would prefer to choose on that basis.

So last test to me showed at least worth persisting with Foley a bit longer imo. I don't expect that to be a popular view but yes is my view. Lets face it I think a lot more people now appreciate Beale - and sometimes it is until we don't have a player we realise how important/good they were. Godwin imo is below Foley so we will agree to disagree there and don't think anyone would seriously suggest he is ready for a test gig.

Foley could be a great 12 if he just focused on his running game, stopped trying to be playmaker, and leave the kicking duties to anyone else.

But then defence is also an issue, and he'll never be a dominate defender that a big body player like Hodge or Kerevi have the potential to be.

But from an attacking stand-point, I do see the potential, but I think it's too soon to be testing him at 12 for the wallabies. His mindset is still trying to a be 10 at 12. I think Hodge will develop quicker.

Yeah Godwin would really be last man standing. But still not a bad option considering. He's solid at least.

 

[Pfitzy]

Great website - put the filter on Foley, and he hasn't taken any long range penalty shots, and he hasn't taken any shots from the more difficult right hand side.

Shame Foley doesn't get to pick where he kicks from eh?
If only the opposition had infringed further out!
Or if Moore had given him the opportunity to kick from 45 more often instead of keeping the pressure on.
Or we scored more tries down the other wing.

Damn you, fate! DAMN YOU!

 

[Braveheart81]

It's absolutely true though that the Wallabies opt to kick for touch on penalties where other teams would take a shot at goal and that is a combination of having a goal kicker with either less distance or accuracy.

You would expect that we will take more shots from half way when close to the middle of the field with Hodge in the side.

 

[kiap]

Shame Foley doesn't get to pick where he kicks from eh?
If only the opposition had infringed further out!
Or if Moore had given him the opportunity to kick from 45 more often instead of keeping the pressure on.
Or we scored more tries down the other wing.

Damn you, fate! DAMN YOU!

My tux didn't come back from the cleaners …

I swear to God!

 

[Viking]

Foley is the most consistent, accurate kicker the Wallabies have had since Elton Flatley. And I say that with no stats or research to back me up at all.

He's slotted a number of high, high pressure kicks to win us games.

He is by no means an all-time great sharp shooter, but he is certainly the best kicker we have right now.
.

Lilo kicked better at Test level in his short stint. Shame about his super xv form. I'd argue Gits and even JOC (James O'Connor) were better, at least on par. Pretty close though so I don't strongly disagree.

It says a lot about our kickers though, if Foley has been our best in years. Another systemic problem in Aus rugby, lack of mentality from youngsters to improve on goal-kicking.

 

[Braveheart81]

Oh Jake!

 

[Scrubber2050]

.

My comment had nothing to do with other posters !

 

[Lindommer]

Great website - put the filter on Foley, and he hasn't taken any long range penalty shots.....

Bernard kicked a beauty in 2014 for the Tahs from, about, 48m. He had to get one kick, and he got it!

 

[Strewthcobber]

Bernard kicked a beauty in 2014 for the Tahs from, about, 48m. He had to get one kick, and he got it!

Wasnt a bad one against Scotland last year either