Wallabies v Pumas, Bankwest (Parra), Sat 5th December

[wamberal]

QH, I am not quite so pessimistic. A couple of reasons. Firstly, I think Rennie is going to be a good coach. Given a bit of time and space (and with all the hassle of relocating in the current environment behind him) he can draw breath now and start building in earnest. Secondly, we have produced what looks like a pretty good generation of 18 to 20 year olds.

 

[Derpus]

Maybe a significant part of the problem is that we're not attracting the caliber of athletes necessary to compete at the highest level?

We need players that are both incredibly skilled and fantastic athletes and a lot of our players aren't both those things.

You dont even need to be a professional athlete to know you cant balk a lineout throw.

I think theres sufficient evidence to suggest there are issues beyond 'we arent getting the best athletes'. Though, we undoubtedly arent.

 

[Viking]

It was probably more that none of the 8 players you listed as wanting to get rid of were Brumbies.

Some of the Brumbies players like Sio, Fainga'a, White and Banks have hardly done much to show that they're taking this team forward yet they don't rate a mention.

So if your Brumbies/Reds/Tahs supporter make sure you always include players from all teams otherwise your post becomes invalid. What a load of rubbish.

The worst part of these boards is how quick everyone is to point the finger about provincial bias.

Even if there is a bias (which in some small way there always is), so what? That is what makes the rivalry and discussions fun.

Also, Go Brumbies!

 

[eastman]

So if your Brumbies/Reds/Tahs supporter make sure you always include players from all teams otherwise your post becomes invalid. What a load of rubbish.

The worst part of these boards is how quick everyone is to point the finger about provincial bias.

Even if there is a bias (which in some small way there always is), so what? That is what makes the rivalry and discussions fun.

Also, Go Brumbies!

Some level of bias is to be expected and managed, but some posters have views that verge on delusion with regards to the strength of their teams and players.

 

[eastman]

It might even just be absolute top- tier trolling.

 

[fatprop]

We need to find some backs who can do the basics, like catch and pass, work hard off the ball, run lines etc etc

 

[Drew]

But only if they’re Tahs....
Or brumbies
Or reds
Or rebels
Or Force-ers
(What is a collective of forces?)

 

[Brumby Runner]

Different teams and different circumstances.
Stepping into a team with less squad stability, less experience and overall lower quality is arguably more difficult for a young player then a team of higher quality.

I don’t know who has the higher ceiling, but I don’t doubt Lolesio benefited from playing in the better team.

The better team? The one that didn't get a single player in the GAGR team of the year? But I do get your point. However, Will looked right out of place in his efforts in a good Aus A team, and incidentally kicked one (IIRC) from I think about 12 attempts at goal. Hopefully they both overtake the likes of JOC (James O'Connor) next year and start the renaissance we all want.

 

[Brumby Runner]

No, I think there is plenty that needs to be improved and I'd certainly make some different selections.

I just don't connect the fact that the Wallabies have been pretty unsuccessful over the last few years as being a reason to get rid of the more senior players who have played through that era. It's a non sequitur.

By your logic we should ditch guys like Harry Wilson because he has a winning percentage of 33% which is way lower than all those older players.

Let's try and select our best players each season. It makes little sense to think that a player who looks worse at Super Rugby level is going to be a better test player than the experienced test player who outperforms them at Super Rugby level as well.

Not by my logic, BH, but by your interpretation of my logic.

I have not said anywhere that Wilson should be dropped. Moved to 6, yes, where he can contribute more in attack. His ball carrying at 8 has been ineffectual.

If I was advocating dropping all those who participated in a 33% winning percentage, I'd be demanding the whole team be dropped. Look closer, you'll see I am advocating for certain of the longer term players who are part of an ingrained failure culture to be replaced. Same team in 21, same results. That might satisfy some here, but not me.

Anyway, we can look forward to some changes, if not the specific ones I have identified, in the next Wallaby season. I am extremely confident that Dave Rennie will want to improve his results and he will have the benefit of watching a full SRAu and TT before doing so.

Have a safe and happy break.

 

[Derpus]

The better team? The one that didn't get a single player in the GAGR team of the year? But I do get your point. However, Will looked right out of place in his efforts in a good Aus A team, and incidentally kicked one (IIRC) from I think about 12 attempts at goal. Hopefully they both overtake the likes of JOC (James O'Connor) next year and start the renaissance we all want.

The kicking is weird given his dead eye in Super Rugby.

 

[rodha]

We need to find some backs who can do the basics, like catch and pass, work hard off the ball, run lines etc etc

So.. basically the Robbie Deans mentality? the selection emphasis on reliable, more composed, high workrate, 'team players' such as Pat McCabe, Peter Hynes, Berrick Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), over more naturally gifted athletes? careful what you wish for there matey..

 

[Derpus]

So.. basically the Robbie Deans mentality? the selection emphasis on reliable, more composed, high workrate, 'team players' such as Pat McCabe, Peter Hynes, Berrick Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), over more naturally gifted athletes? careful what you wish for there matey..

Your Deans obsession is pretty weird given how long its been since hes been around.

 

[Drew]

Like I said earlier, the second Australian Barbarian (not A) game v pumas was their whole touring squad (40something players) playing three 30 minute thirds against a composite team of 28 players from the wider wallabies squad, local super rugby players and club players with unlimited interchange. So it’s not really a fair comparison. You wonder if Harrison and Lolesio had switched places, whether the outcomes would’ve been much different. I look forward to them (and the rest of our promising playmakers) upping the ante and lifting the standard of playmakers in this country. It can only be a good thing.

 

[fatprop]

So.. basically the Robbie Deans mentality? the selection emphasis on reliable, more composed, high workrate, 'team players' such as Pat McCabe, Peter Hynes, Berrick Barnes, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), over more naturally gifted athletes? careful what you wish for there matey..

No problem for me, we keep picking too many flawed units "naturally gifted athletes" in the hope that their random individual moments justiies their lack of ability to play as part of a team

We could instead create a "team" that is prepared do those 1%'ers

 

[Joe Blow]

No problem for me, we keep picking too many flawed units "naturally gifted athletes" in the hope that their random individual moments justiies their lack of ability to play as part of a team

We could instead create a "team" that is prepared do those 1%'ers

Well that sounds great except that we don’t exactly have world class talent banging down the door. We started Reece Hodge at 10 in two tests, Hanigan was the lock back up for a test.
There have been a lot of young players blooded this year and that will reap benefits in the next few years.

A team of mediocre players doing the extra 1%ers might not cut it against the likes of the ABs and Boks, or the Pumas for that matter. Rennie knows what he is doing. Hard to judge him too harshly on this year.

 

[eastman]

No problem for me, we keep picking too many flawed units "naturally gifted athletes" in the hope that their random individual moments justiies their lack of ability to play as part of a team

We could instead create a "team" that is prepared do those 1%'ers

Yep we need Alex Newsome, Cam Clarke and Michael Wells in the 23.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Four week suspension for LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) - not entitled to 50% discount due to prior offending.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...loto-cops-fourweek-suspension-for-high-tackle

 

[fatprop]

Well that sounds great except that we don’t exactly have world class talent banging down the door. We started Reece Hodge at 10 in two tests, Hanigan was the lock back up for a test.
There have been a lot of young players blooded this year and that will reap benefits in the next few years.

A team of mediocre players doing the extra 1%ers might not cut it against the likes of the ABs and Boks, or the Pumas for that matter. Rennie knows what he is doing. Hard to judge him too harshly on this year.

We have very few world class units in the backs, with koro possibly going - none, we are picking players with potential, I would prefer us picking players with potential who can do the basics, possibly less flash, but hopefully with more catching, passing, supporting & workrate off the ball.

We were one out too often with supports offering nothing, either too wide or flat footed

Wright on Saturday was the only unit that looked light a "completer" unit with Simone doing some nice things off the bench.

we are 8th in the world and that isn't going to change for a few years and I just think we will get more out of being a team and playing as a team than a group hoping to do miracle plays

 

[Adam84]

We have very few world class units in the backs, with koro possibly going - none, we are picking players with potential, I would prefer us picking players with potential who can do the basics, possibly less flash, but hopefully with more catching, passing, supporting & workrate off the ball.

We were one out too often with supports offering nothing, either too wide or flat footed

Wright on Saturday was the only unit that looked light a "completer" unit with Simone doing some nice things off the bench.

we are 8th in the world and that isn't going to change for a few years and I just think we will get more out of being a team and playing as a team than a group hoping to do miracle plays

Yeah but who are these player that you speak of, Wright is one example you've named, but who fills out the rest of the backline, who is getting overlooked that should be starting in the backline?

 

[fatprop]

Yep we need Alex Newsome, Cam Clarke and Michael Wells in the 23.

Not exactly who I was thinking of