Wallabies v Ireland, Sun 20th Nov 7am AEDT

[stillmissit]

I can have firm concerns with a coach without calling for his sacking. FWIW I have never called for Rennie to be removed, not once.

I have called for overview and controls to ensure we don't see another Italy debacle.

Dru, I think nobody has ever given the players the hard talk about being professional, it is not about playing some footie and getting the big bucks, it's about doing difficult things at a high level repeatedly with a similar outcome.
It is to do with competence which brings confidence and I mean real confidence not just feeling up for it!
I am expecting that Rennie will go through a serious review after this tour and I hope it is done with no consideration for anything apart from what went wrong and what he thinks is necessary to fix it. The plan for 23 would be high on my agenda. This assumes he has a job after this tour.

 

[Tomthumb]

We don't have a substandard coach, we don't get substandard wallaby coaches, they all get sacked "because they are the problem" and then succeed elsewhere, we have a lack of world class units in general( and too many injuries)

Never Rennies fault

 

[stillmissit]

I do laugh that the only defense of keeping Rennie is that there is apparently no one else. Hardly a ringing endorsement, and that is never a good reason to keep the status quo

Who comes in? Coleman, Thorn, McKellar, any number of guys really. Anyone that will change this weird losing mentality where they are "proud" when they lose and actually instill some discipline in this group

At some point results have to matter, otherwise why do we bother playing the games? If there are no consequences or accountability for the coach, how can we expect the players to have accountability?

If we want discipline in the team and I think most of us do, then bring in Thorn with McKellar with one bringing the big stick and the other a carrot. BUT only for the RWC.

 

[qwerty51]

If we want discipline in the team and I think most of us do, then bring in Thorn with McKellar with one bringing the big stick and the other a carrot.

Reds and Brumbies are at the top of the most ill-disciplined Super sides..

 

[Braveheart81]

What are you offering Thorn though? An interim role for 2023 only?

Does Thorn run a disciplined side on the field? The Reds were the most yellow-carded side in 2022.

The Wallabies don't seem to have discipline issues off the field.

 

[stillmissit]

What are you offering Thorn though? An interim role for 2023 only?

Does Thorn run a disciplined side on the field? The Reds were the most yellow-carded side in 2022.

The Wallabies don't seem to have discipline issues off the field.

I don't think we have a coach who puts a disciplined side out on the field. If RA gave clear instructions regarding ill-discipline and some of the other issues ie closing off games. The two of them could at least give us a chance of making the semi's. I doubt Robertson or any decent coach will step in at such short notice. SA's Jake White being the exception.

 

[eastman]

I don't think we have a coach who puts a disciplined side out on the field. If Rugby Australia gave clear instructions regarding ill-discipline and some of the other issues ie closing off games. The two of them could at least give us a chance of making the semi's. I doubt Robertson or any decent coach will step in at such short notice. SA's Jack White being the exception.

Why would Rugby Australia (as a governing body) have any input into onfield tactics?

I bet Rennie would love to be able to drop the repeat offenders such as Fainga'a but he‘s constrained by the lack of capable replacements.

 

[fatprop]

Never Rennies fault

meh, the question is "is Rennie a substandard coach"

my opinion is no, he is a quality coach, as was Deans, McKenzie. Cheika etc

Now I appreciate it is easier to sack one unit rather then fix the structural problems - so hey, go at it, watch nothing intrinsically change

 

[stillmissit]

meh, the question is "is Rennie a substandard coach"

my opinion is no, he is a quality coach, as was Deans, McKenzie. Cheika etc

Now I appreciate it is easier to sack one unit rather then fix the structural problems - so hey, go at it, watch nothing intrinsically change

I agree with you but there are many here calling for his head. I don't think it will make much difference as we have been down this road many times since Eddie Jones's days. The problems lie in poor basic training at schools, academies, clubs and Super Rugby.
We have to deal with what we've got to get through the RWC.

 

[stillmissit]

Why would Rugby Australia (as a governing body) have any input into onfield tactics?

I bet Rennie would love to be able to drop the repeat offenders such as Fainga'a but he‘s constrained by the lack of capable replacements.

EM, RA have as much right to an opinion on the Wallabies with the proviso that they are paying the wages so can ask hard questions. What are you suggesting RA does?
Everybody agreed that Rennie was a good catch and now many think he is a crap coach. There has to be a point at which we face up to our situation and put a plan in place to move us forward, we have gone nowhere in the last 15 years.

 

[Maulalltheway]

EM, Rugby Australia have as much right to an opinion on the Wallabies with the proviso that they are paying the wages so can ask hard questions. What are you suggesting Rugby Australia does?
Everybody agreed that Rennie was a good catch and now many think he is a crap coach. There has to be a point at which we face up to our situation and put a plan in place to move us forward, we have gone nowhere in the last 15 years.

they're allowed an opinion and I'm sure they do. but you mentioned "If Rugby Australia gave clear instructions regarding ill-discipline and some of the other issues i.e. closing off games". Regarding this point, they employ a coach for this. the people at RA aren't elite coaches. you'll never get a good working relationship between coach and governing body if they are giving instruction into on field, just as if Rennie started providing instruction on the corporate side.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I do laugh that the only defense of keeping Rennie is that there is apparently no one else. Hardly a ringing endorsement, and that is never a good reason to keep the status quo

Who comes in? Coleman, Thorn, McKellar, any number of guys really. Anyone that will change this weird losing mentality where they are "proud" when they lose and actually instill some discipline in this group

At some point results have to matter, otherwise why do we bother playing the games? If there are no consequences or accountability for the coach, how can we expect the players to have accountability?

Of those three, McKellar would currently be the best, Thorn would be the most able to shake things up in the short term, and Coleman will probably be the best in a few years time.

Maybe you're on to something with Thorn. He wouldn't baulk at standing down players who didn't follow instructions, or at tossing them completely aside if they continue to offend. It would certainly shake the team up in (say) the short time left before WC23. OTOH, he might very well end up with no players at his disposal to select from.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Coleman? He seems to be a good coach, but you might want him to deliver some results first…

Thorn? Players seem to be regressing, or leaving because of him… who will be left in the squad once the morality police go through it?

McKellar… obviously touted as a future successor but the current state of the Wallaby forwards might be hurting his claim.

An interesting take on Dan, Slim. Although a very favoured one on these threads I'm afraid,

The Wallabies presently have the following Forwards coming out of recent Brumbies Super Rugby sides. Slipper, Fainga'a, Ala'alatoa, Frost, Neville, Swain, Valetini, and Samu. And potentially Scott Sio. All good to excellent players. The two props are without question in the top four in the country and I'd argue Sio fit and injury free as he is now is just about the best of our LHP but not available.

The second row is dominated by Brumbies and ex-Brumbies players and are on par or better than any opposition they've played on this tour.

Rob Valetini has been inspirational at No 8 and consistently one of the best Wallaby forwards going round. Pistol Pete had a couple of very strong games at No 7 and is generally accepted as being the best cover for the whole backrow in the country.

All players who have been coached and tutored by Dan MacKellar in recent years. In all of our recent tests they, along with those from other franchises have been competitive at world level, except perhaps at the breakdown, as important as that is. Set piece is up there with the best internationally, while there is little criticism of their defensive efforts. But is the breakdown an area of Dan's responsibility? Laurie Fisher's I would have thought.

So I'm intrigued to find out just why Dan MacKellar is supposedly in the gun sights for apparent failure. He seems to tick all the boxes as forwards coach to me.

 

[Maulalltheway]

An interesting take on Dan, Slim. Although a very favoured one on these threads I'm afraid,

The Wallabies presently have the following Forwards coming out of recent Brumbies Super Rugby sides. Slipper, Fainga'a, Ala'alatoa, Frost, Neville, Swain, Valetini, and Samu. And potentially Scott Sio. All good to excellent players. The two props are without question in the top four in the country and I'd argue Sio fit and injury free as he is now is just about the best of our LHP but not available.

The second row is dominated by Brumbies and ex-Brumbies players and are on par or better than any opposition they've played on this tour.

Rob Valetini has been inspirational at No 8 and consistently one of the best Wallaby forwards going round. Pistol Pete had a couple of very strong games at No 7 and is generally accepted as being the best cover for the whole backrow in the country.

All players who have been coached and tutored by Dan MacKellar in recent years. In all of our recent tests they, along with those from other franchises have been competitive at world level, except perhaps at the breakdown, as important as that is. Set piece is up there with the best internationally, while there is little criticism of their defensive efforts. But is the breakdown an area of Dan's responsibility? Laurie Fisher's I would have thought.

So I'm intrigued to find out just why Dan MacKellar is supposedly in the gun sights for apparent failure. He seems to tick all the boxes as forwards coach to me.

because we in australia love sacking assistant coaches not the head coaches. Especially when they were previously at the brums

 

[Doritos Day]

It's pretty simple. The Wallabies main issue is they rely on a handful of ageing players to be fit from Round 1 of Super Rugby to the last international of the year. The drop off from the world class talent to the next tier is greater than probably any other side in the world.

 

[LeCheese]

An interesting take on Dan, Slim. Although a very favoured one on these threads I'm afraid,

The Wallabies presently have the following Forwards coming out of recent Brumbies Super Rugby sides. Slipper, Fainga'a, Ala'alatoa, Frost, Neville, Swain, Valetini, and Samu. And potentially Scott Sio. All good to excellent players. The two props are without question in the top four in the country and I'd argue Sio fit and injury free as he is now is just about the best of our LHP but not available.

The second row is dominated by Brumbies and ex-Brumbies players and are on par or better than any opposition they've played on this tour.

Rob Valetini has been inspirational at No 8 and consistently one of the best Wallaby forwards going round. Pistol Pete had a couple of very strong games at No 7 and is generally accepted as being the best cover for the whole backrow in the country.

All players who have been coached and tutored by Dan MacKellar in recent years. In all of our recent tests they, along with those from other franchises have been competitive at world level, except perhaps at the breakdown, as important as that is. Set piece is up there with the best internationally, while there is little criticism of their defensive efforts. But is the breakdown an area of Dan's responsibility? Laurie Fisher's I would have thought.

So I'm intrigued to find out just why Dan MacKellar is supposedly in the gun sights for apparent failure. He seems to tick all the boxes as forwards coach to me.

And yet the Wallabies forward pack is consistently losing the battle at the breakdown, and three of those players you flagged - Slipper, Fainga'a, Swain - are consistently three of the worst offenders when it comes to discipline issues. Might not be the worst idea for someone else to give them some guidance and mentorship, don't you think?

 

[cyclopath]

An interesting take on Dan, Slim. Although a very favoured one on these threads I'm afraid,

The Wallabies presently have the following Forwards coming out of recent Brumbies Super Rugby sides. Slipper, Fainga'a, Ala'alatoa, Frost, Neville, Swain, Valetini, and Samu. And potentially Scott Sio. All good to excellent players. The two props are without question in the top four in the country and I'd argue Sio fit and injury free as he is now is just about the best of our LHP but not available.

The second row is dominated by Brumbies and ex-Brumbies players and are on par or better than any opposition they've played on this tour.

Rob Valetini has been inspirational at No 8 and consistently one of the best Wallaby forwards going round. Pistol Pete had a couple of very strong games at No 7 and is generally accepted as being the best cover for the whole backrow in the country.

All players who have been coached and tutored by Dan MacKellar in recent years. In all of our recent tests they, along with those from other franchises have been competitive at world level, except perhaps at the breakdown, as important as that is. Set piece is up there with the best internationally, while there is little criticism of their defensive efforts. But is the breakdown an area of Dan's responsibility? Laurie Fisher's I would have thought.

So I'm intrigued to find out just why Dan MacKellar is supposedly in the gun sights for apparent failure. He seems to tick all the boxes as forwards coach to me.

It would seem logical that McKellar should have them going better. It puzzles me that he hasn't, although the complete lack of stable combinations with all the injuries / suspensions etc doesn't help. But Test rugby and Super Rugby are different beasts, played with different styles, and maybe the Brumbies have looked better partly due to the mediocre standard of Aus Super Rugby teams of late. Sure, the Brumbies did a bit better against Kiwi opposition, but their awesomeness might be a tad over-estimated.
As for set pieces being "up with the best" I would concede that may be the case for scrums but line outs just have not been, not with any consistency anyway.

 

[Dctarget]

The drop off from the world class talent to the next tier is greater than probably any other side in the world.

That's bollocks. How do you think Scotland or Wales would fare with their 4th choice inside centre or their 3rd choice fullback?

Really the only nations that could weather an injury toll like ours would be NZ, France and England. I'm dubious South Africa could, looking at their flyhalf stocks.

 

[stillmissit]

they're allowed an opinion and I'm sure they do. but you mentioned "If Rugby Australia gave clear instructions regarding ill-discipline and some of the other issues i.e. closing off games". Regarding this point, they employ a coach for this. the people at Rugby Australia aren't elite coaches. you'll never get a good working relationship between coach and governing body if they are giving instruction into on field, just as if Rennie started providing instruction on the corporate side.

So what would you have to say to Rennie assuming you were in charge at RA?

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

It's pretty simple. The Wallabies main issue is they rely on a handful of ageing players to be fit from Round 1 of Super Rugby to the last international of the year. The drop off from the world class talent to the next tier is greater than probably any other side in the world.

I fully agree with the first part of this about how dependant we are on certain players, but most Test teams are as well to be winning the majority of Test Matches. Ireland looked a lot less organised without 1 guy.

One of the only positives I can take out of the Wallabies performances has been the ability of some of these blokes to stay in these tests v France, Ireland when we have been chopping and changing and down to some who weren't being thought of at the end of the Super Rugby season to be capped for Australia. They might not all be long term options, but nobody has waved the white flag and been flogged.