Wallabies v Ireland, Sun 20th Nov 7am AEDT

[stillmissit]

The Eastwood love is strong in @wamberal

I agree he has proven to have good knowledge of the game but with what he's done with the Mens 7s he should stay there. Most success they have had in a long time and they don't deserve to lose him when he has no professional 15s experience as far as I know.

Cron and Coleman are both great prospects in the coaching ranks but I want to see them lead their respective franchises over the next couple of years and develop players for the national team.

Ghost do you think we have 2 years to right this ship? It's been taking on water for a long time now and the accounts reflect it. Mixed metaphor?

 

[Derpus]

It's pretty clear that there is too big a gap between being a Super Rugby assistant and Super Rugby head coach to make that leap a reasonable career path for most coaches.

Dan McKellar is arguably the only one who has done it well.

The Reds effectively burned a couple of years to give Thorn on the job experience before he was up to the job.

The Tahs struggled badly with Gibson. Likewise Wessels, Foote and Sampson didn't really succeed.

I don't think there's really a way to fix the problem either. We need (most of) our coaches to go offshore to get head coaching experience elsewhere before becoming the head coach of a Super Rugby side.

Burn it all to the ground and start again.

 

[stillmissit]

Burn it all to the ground and start again.

God that's tempting. We have tried everything logic could provide and none of it has worked.

 

[Derpus]

God that's tempting. We have tried everything logic could provide and none of it has worked.

I wouldn't say that...

 

[stillmissit]

I wouldn't say that...

What else you got?

 

[Braveheart81]

Burn it all to the ground and start again.

If you flipped it around and we had 8-10 domestic teams that were weaker than our current teams then there is probably a better pathway locally to becoming a head coach but then there'd be too big a jump to becoming the Wallabies coach.

More so than for players, coaches do need to move around more regardless of the local pathways because there are just far less jobs on offer and they don't become available on a regular/predictable basis.

 

[Wilson]

It's pretty clear that there is too big a gap between being a Super Rugby assistant and Super Rugby head coach to make that leap a reasonable career path for most coaches.

Dan McKellar is arguably the only one who has done it well.

The Reds effectively burned a couple of years to give Thorn on the job experience before he was up to the job.

The Tahs struggled badly with Gibson. Likewise Wessels, Foote and Sampson didn't really succeed.

I don't think there's really a way to fix the problem either. We need (most of) our coaches to go offshore to get head coaching experience elsewhere before becoming the head coach of a Super Rugby side.

It's been said before, but having the NRC around to give them a bit more experience in stepping up would help overtime. Doesn't do as much to teach squad/list management but is good for tactics and selection. Likewise having an all super assistant team for Aus A should help.

I think the big thing is a need to better link the club game to the pros - it's where these guys are going to get that experience managing a team week in week out, and season after season. Obviously the gap is still pretty big between the two so we need things like NRC and U20s to help ease them in otherwise we do end up relying on overseas stints and that is unreliable and inefficient. Potentially getting current Shute Shield/Hospitals Cup head coaches more directly invlovled with the Tahs/Reds is a place to start.

 

[Derpus]

If you flipped it around and we had 8-10 domestic teams that were weaker than our current teams then there is probably a better pathway locally to becoming a head coach but then there'd be too big a jump to becoming the Wallabies coach.

More so than for players, coaches do need to move around more regardless of the local pathways because there are just far less jobs on offer and they don't become available on a regular/predictable basis.

Is it different anywhere else? It should be a huge jump to national coach. Equally, there should be plenty of opportunities to excel and demonstrate your excellence in competition with your peers.

And there should be several tiers below that too.

We just slapped some salaries onto the top end of our amateur framework and called it professionalism.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is it different anywhere else? It should be a huge jump to national coach.

The size of that jump depends on the level of the competition you're jumping from.

I'm suggesting that it's not as large from Super Rugby to test rugby as it would be if the local option was more akin to the NRC.

To summarize, there's no easy way to fix our coaching pathways. I think they are improving and we're getting some good progression from club rugby into Super Rugby but the reality will always be that a lot of coaches need to go offshore to progress their careers. I don't think we should be upset by that. Like players we produce substantially more coaches than we have jobs for, particularly good jobs.

 

[qwerty51]

Ideally we don't want Cron, Thorn, Coleman or Larkham leaving Super Rugby anytime soon to coach the Wallabies. Strong Super coaches puts us in a stronger national position too.

If Cheika remained Tahs coach until 2017 or even post-2019 I reckon he'd be a much better Test coach. Gibson would've been more prepared too.

The Tahs built up so much goodwill from a desperate fan base from 2013-2015. The fans all came back and then 2016-2021 (or at least post-Cron) they kind of just fucked it again. Backing Gibson over Cron was such a disaster.

 

[RugbyReg]

Burn it all to the ground and start again.

What does that mean? To wind up RA and all the state bodies? Clubs etc?

 

[Braveheart81]

What does that mean? To wind up Rugby Australia and all the state bodies? Clubs etc?

Instead of having substandard pathways for professional coaches, let's have no pathways!

 

[Derpus]

What does that mean? To wind up Rugby Australia and all the state bodies? Clubs etc?

Well - in the wonderful realms of fantasy that populate my imagination everything above subbies is deleted and reformed to create a glorious tiered system which loosely mimics the British football pyramid - including promotion and relegation. Top tier clubs can qualify for the Pacific Champions Cup which is played concurrently with other qualifying NZ/Pacific Island/Japanese teams.

In reality? I guess just a third stab at a domestic comp...

 

[Derpus]

Instead of having substandard pathways for professional coaches, let's have no pathways!

I'd prefer a wild stab at something decent than your endless defence of doomed mediocrity.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Ghost do you think we have 2 years to right this ship? It's been taking on water for a long time now and the accounts reflect it. Mixed metaphor?

Right now. No. I think the current situation is done to be honest but I’m not sure a change right now will fix anything on field but it may be the message that needs to be sent that enough is enough.

We may not be a top 3/4 nation in Rugby in all honesty but we should want to be.

There are positives to be taken from the way the national U16s & U19s competition was run and apart from the last Oceania U20s there have been good signs.

Everyone around Rugby in Australia knows about the politics and chat that is always regrettably abundant. We need someone to be given control without interference to put clear directions in place and if you don’t like it then fuck off.

 

[wamberal]

Nope.
How good was Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) this morning?
Read somewhere he almost defected to Fiji - that's an example on how tuff our current pathway is - the confidence and structure it gives the players.

Good news for the Marlins, Dave. Lets hope the kid lives up to the hype!