Wallabies V Ireland, Brisbane

[Scarfman]

It's under the sticks when they're taking the conversion that really matters. Come out firing, score the next points, take back the momentum.

 

[Reddy!]

Okay, look out for me people who are going to the game. You'll be able to tell it's me because I'll be wearing my Wallabies jersey.

 

[RedsHappy]

hahaha

 

[RugbyReg]

15 James O’Connor Force 15
14 Drew Mitchell Waratahs 44
13 Rob Horne Waratahs 3
12 Matt Giteau Brumbies 80
11 Adam-Ashley-Cooper Brumbies 39
10 Quade Cooper Reds 14
9 Luke Burgess Waratahs 23
8 Richard Brown Force 15
7 David Pocock Force 18
6 Rocky Elsom [c] Brumbies 52
5 Nathan Sharpe Force 81
4 Dean Mumm Waratahs 23
3 Salesi Ma’afu Brumbies 3
2 Saia Fainga'a Reds 3
1 Ben Daley Reds 2
Reserves:
16 Huia Edmonds Brumbies 3
17 James Slipper Reds 2
18 Mark Chisholm Brumbies 50
19 Matt Hodgson Force 2
20 Josh Valentine Brumbies 5
21 Berrick Barnes Waratahs 22
22 Kurtley Beale Waratahs 3

 

[Groucho]

We can see how this is going to pan out, right? We comfortably beat the Irish, get hammered by both the Boks and the Kiwis in the Tri's (except for a marvellous victory in Sydney/Brisbane/Elsewhere in Oz) that makes us think we are back on track, then an ordinary EOYT, etc, etc.

Apologies if this has been posted earlier, but this quote from Dwyer today made me sit up an take notice:

"On current form, and my assessment of their respective potential, I don't see either team as winning quarter-finalists next year and, of the two, I see England as the more likely to alter my opinion," Dwyer wrote in his analysis on the Heavensgame website.

So, while I suppose anything could happen, is our 91 cup winning coach right? Anyone agree/disagree?

I've got a lot of time for Dwyer but I think he's wide of the mark here, perhaps not with his conclusion but with his reasoning, which is that we don't have a sufficient number of good-enough individual players compared to past RWC-winning teams.

I'd say Robinson, Nau, Pocock, Elsom (in form), Palu, Genia, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and maybe JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne are good enough to be competitive with the stars of those tournaments.

The problem seems to me to be twofold:

Firstly, for some reason, we've been hit with a slew of injuries to many of the above players at the same time. When we get them back, and mix in the solid journeymen like Horwill, then we will have a far more competitive pack as well as a more settle backline. Are these guys Gregans, Larkhams and Roffs? Yeah, I think they may be.

Secondly, as people like fatprop point out, we seem to have a serious attitude problem in the ranks. There is none of the mad-dog 100% commitment in the Wallabies that we see in the Boks and Kiwis.

Is it a coaching problem? I'm a Deans fan as well. I'm going to wait till we have our best team on the field till I make up my mind, but I'm officially worried.

Maybe Kiwi coaches and Australian players really don't mix. There was certainly no lack of commitment at the Crusaders when Deans was there.

Hmm. Bugger.

 

[TheTruth]

I've got a lot of time for Dwyer but I think he's wide of the mark here, perhaps not with his conclusion but with his reasoning, which is that we don't have a sufficient number of good-enough individual players compared to past RWC-winning teams.

I'd say Robinson, Nau, Pocock, Elsom (in form), Palu, Genia, Cooper, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and maybe JOC (James O'Connor) and Horne are good enough to be competitive with the stars of those tournaments.

The problem seems to me to be twofold:

Firstly, for some reason, we've been hit with a slew of injuries to many of the above players at the same time. When we get them back, and mix in the solid journeymen like Horwill, then we will have a far more competitive pack as well as a more settle backline. Are these guys Gregans, Larkhams and Roffs? Yeah, I think they may be.

Secondly, as people like fatprop point out, we seem to have a serious attitude problem in the ranks. There is none of the mad-dog 100% commitment in the Wallabies that we see in the Boks and Kiwis.

Is it a coaching problem? I'm a Deans fan as well. I'm going to wait till we have our best team on the field till I make up my mind, but I'm officially worried.

Maybe Kiwi coaches and Australian players really don't mix. There was certainly no lack of commitment at the Crusaders when Deans was there.

Hmm. Bugger.

Seems to me that the young blokes are extremely motivated anmd committed - its the "old" or so-called tested players that seem to mbe having the "lapses" - these are the fellows that need to stand up and drive the team the way its supposed to be driven. Probably too much criticism of the young fellows and NOT ENOUGH of the main stays.

 

[HG]

I agree with all of what you have said but Leave Horne out as he is not playing well and is yet to be tested at test level.

 

[Ash]

Hmmm, looks like this is the squad Deans wants to take into the Tri-Nations, minus the expected players returning from injury (Robinson, Moore, Genia).

Amazed Ma'afu and Mumm are still there, though. Mumm needs to step up I think. Maafu I just don't think is a test quality prop, although he could still develop into one in a few years.

Horne I am a bit concerned about, but he has time on his side. Horne does not inject himself into the game enough for my liking. Ioane and Mitchell from the wing seem better at injecting themselves more, and I'd like to see Horne setting up his outside man a bit more. Conrad Smith is great in that department. I suspect it may be a bit of confidence, so hopefully it will come for Horne.

Surprised Hynes didn't get a call up, but Hynes wasn't looking too good vs the Baabaas. Thought Hynes wasn't running freely, either.

I am a bit worried about the defence of Mitchell and J'OC. They have both been stood up a few times on defence at international level and both have to work hard on it.

 

[Ash]

Oh, and can't see where agression at the breakdown is going to come from. Wallaby forwards often seem like they need at attitude adjustment in big games. Against Ireland I don't think it will stand out, but teams like England, SA and NZ it tends to be obvious.

 

[fatprop]

Oh, and can't see where agression at the breakdown is going to come from. Wallaby forwards often seem like they need at attitude adjustment in big games. Against Ireland I don't think it will stand out, but teams like England, SA and NZ it tends to be obvious.

Yep, they will do OK versus the Irish and then they will be found out in the Tri -Nations ..............

 

[Newb]

keeping the same players together can have its merits. constantly chopping and changing doesn't build a team in my mind so switching a guy out after a bad game or two won't fix it, but you have to be sure that the guys you're sticking with are who you really want there and that they deserve some trust to find their form and come right. this is where i think deans has gone wrong a bit. he started out with players that just don't seem up to it (ma'afu, brown, chis, perhaps mumm but i think better of him).

but if they don't start improving, it will just be more of the same.

 

[DPK]

If the team selected for the game vs. Ireland is picked and beats the All Blacks, I will eat my keyboard (and post pictures)

 

[Scotty]

Team comparison

Team of the decade vs Current first choice team

1. Richard Harry vs Robinson
2. Phil Kearns vs TPN/Moore
3. Andrew Blades vs Alexander
4. David Giffin vs Horwill
5. John Eales (C) vs Sharpe
6. Owen Finegan vs Elsom
7. George Smith vs Pocock
8. Toutai Kefu vs Palu
9. George Gregan vs Genia
10. Stephen Larkham vs Cooper
11. Joe Roff vs Mitchell
12. Tim Horan vs Giteau
13. Jason Little vs Horne/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Ben Tune vs Ioane
15. Matthew Burke vs JOC (James O'Connor)/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

My assessment:

Front row - just as good as team of the decade front row
Locks - obviously not as good, however I think Giffin was overrated, so only Eales is the standout here
Backrow - if Palu has one of his good games, then again they are of similar standard
Halves - Genia is the equal of Gregan, and Cooper has the potential to get close to Larkham (not close at the moment though)
Centres - our current centres have nothing on these two (that is why I keep banging on about trying someone other than Gits, and maybe moving Horne in one postion)
Wings - I'd pick Ioane and Tune out of those 4, but on balance the team of the decade is better
Fullback - JOC (James O'Connor) has nothing on Burkey

So in summary I think our weakest areas are in the centres and at fullback, not necessarily in the forwards.

 

[MrMouse]

Scotty, while I agree that Genia can be as good as, if not better than, Gregan he still has a fair bit of ground solo, or as a partnership with Cooper to match up to 9. Gregan 10. Larkham.

I would definitely agree that our current #1 forward pack could gain parity, but the backline as a whole is, amusingly, not up to speed. I say amusingly, because in our current available team, the backs shit all over the forwards seven ways to Sunday.

 

[Lance Free]

Ireland XV:

15 - Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
11 - Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
10 - Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
1 - Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2 - Sean Cronin (Buccaneers/Connacht)
3 - Tony Buckley (Shannon/Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
5 - Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
6 - Niall Ronan (Shannon/Munster)
7 - Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
8 - Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster) *

Replacements:

16 - Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster) *
17 - Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
18 - Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
19 - Rhys Ruddock (UCD/Leinster) *
20 - Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22 - Geordan Murphy (Leicester Tigers)

Uncapped Chris Henry, the Ulster back rower, is the newbie in the side with Sexton displacing ROG.

Teenage flanker Rhys Ruddock and hooker Damien Varley, who have been named among the replacements, are the other uncapped players in the matchday 22.

 

[matty_k]

If the team selected for the game vs. Ireland is picked and beats the All Blacks, I will eat my keyboard (and post pictures)

Video would be better

 

[DPK]

Video would be better

Deal.

 

[Viking]

@Scotty, looking at those 2 teams in attack (backline especially) they are pretty even at least when they are firing at the top of their games, But defensively, u'd have to say the team of decade well outweighs the current team which is full of defensive flakes ie. Cooper, Mitchell, JOC (James O'Connor), and to a lesser extent gits and horne (everyone said he was a good defender but at test level he has way too many missed tackles, same with Ioane). The team of decade, has wonderful defenders!

The difference in our current team winning n losing is defence defence defence.

 

[Scotty]

Good point Seb V. I reckon we can carry Cooper as a defensive liability, but we need a hard hitting defender outside him, and a good defensive fullback for when you want to hide him. The current backline liabilites are most certainly defense and a lack of size. I'd rather see the likes of Hynes and Chambers getting a chance than keep going with the midget policy.

I find it funny that Deans (when talking about Cooper) said something like 'test matches aren't about talent, they are about toughness', and then he goes and picks the likes of JOC (James O'Connor) and Beale ahead of Hynes.

 

[daz]

Just as a point of interest, we are hardly comparing apples with apples here. The team of the decade has a list of names that earned their status over proven years. Most of our current mob are still in nappies.

It is possible that in 20 years time we will be having this same conversation about the fucking useless 2030 Wallabies and using the likes of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/QC (Quade Cooper)/Genia/Horne/JOC (James O'Connor), etc as our team of the decade in comparison.

I think the talent is there. That is not really the question though, is it? The question is: Who can harness that talent and get them all on the same page at the same time?