Wallabies v France - June 14 Etihad Stadium
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Jim Lenehan (48)
I don't think Link or anyone expects Skelton will play a significant role for the Wallabies in 2014, but I'm sure Link thinks he has the potential to play a significant role next year. That means including him in the team set up, introducing him to our systems and giving him a few chances to get a feel for test rugby this year. If Link doesn't do all of those things this year its pointless trying to involve him in the team next year.
All this means that Link will play Skelton this year when the opportunity presents itself. Given the quality of our test opposition this year, he'll be used sparingly. If we are up 2-nil against the French after Saturday, I guarantee he'll get a bench spot in the third test. It is the perfect opportunity for Skelton to get his first run, as he is unlikely to get many opportunities during the RC.
This idea that he shouldn't be selected because he cant play 80 minutes is a furphy. As Braveheart and many people have pointed out, we are currently playing Fardy (a lock) as our no.6. If we lose a lock we have cover, so it is unlikely that even with an early injury we would be forced to bring Skelton on until the second half. Also if Skelton was forced to play 80 minutes for his country I'd wage he make it to the 80 minute mark (not that this would ever happen), it's not like he hasn't played 80 minutes for the tahs on several occasions this year. He played close to 80 minutes against the B&I Lions last year from memory.
Skelton's initiation into the squad is important. It's easy to discard his value when you're coming off a dominating win over a French team that never really tried to physically compete last week, but just wait until the wallabies come up against the likes of England, the Blacks, the Boks and start losing the collision. Id wager that without front football we will look decidedly average,. There are times when we are going to be outmuscled, we need players that can counter that. Palu is decent when playing well but he'll be unavailable for a lot of tests. Douglas has the size and physicality but is no longer available. likewise with Timani. Our pool in the RWC is going to be fucking brutal. Wales and England will certainly try to outmuscle us and I'll be fucked if I'm watching another world cup where we get pushed off the ball constantly.
Skelton provides extra weight in the scrum, he provides go forward, he provides solid maul defense and the ability to physically dominate. He needs time to develop and that time should start now.
All this means that Link will play Skelton this year when the opportunity presents itself. Given the quality of our test opposition this year, he'll be used sparingly. If we are up 2-nil against the French after Saturday, I guarantee he'll get a bench spot in the third test. It is the perfect opportunity for Skelton to get his first run, as he is unlikely to get many opportunities during the RC.
This idea that he shouldn't be selected because he cant play 80 minutes is a furphy. As Braveheart and many people have pointed out, we are currently playing Fardy (a lock) as our no.6. If we lose a lock we have cover, so it is unlikely that even with an early injury we would be forced to bring Skelton on until the second half. Also if Skelton was forced to play 80 minutes for his country I'd wage he make it to the 80 minute mark (not that this would ever happen), it's not like he hasn't played 80 minutes for the tahs on several occasions this year. He played close to 80 minutes against the B&I Lions last year from memory.
Skelton's initiation into the squad is important. It's easy to discard his value when you're coming off a dominating win over a French team that never really tried to physically compete last week, but just wait until the wallabies come up against the likes of England, the Blacks, the Boks and start losing the collision. Id wager that without front football we will look decidedly average,. There are times when we are going to be outmuscled, we need players that can counter that. Palu is decent when playing well but he'll be unavailable for a lot of tests. Douglas has the size and physicality but is no longer available. likewise with Timani. Our pool in the RWC is going to be fucking brutal. Wales and England will certainly try to outmuscle us and I'll be fucked if I'm watching another world cup where we get pushed off the ball constantly.
Skelton provides extra weight in the scrum, he provides go forward, he provides solid maul defense and the ability to physically dominate. He needs time to develop and that time should start now.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
He is indeed good in the line out (as a jumper).......... still one of his strengths...........
But whether or not that's enough to keep him in the side if his form doesn't improve..............
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I agree Slim. Just pointing at that James is actually our second best line out forward, it just gets glossed over because Simmons is widely accepted as the best.
Whilst he is not at his best, I think he is likely to at least stay on the bench due to the fact that he is the only lock who can cover both roles to a reasonable standard.
Whilst he is not at his best, I think he is likely to at least stay on the bench due to the fact that he is the only lock who can cover both roles to a reasonable standard.
gone
Ted Fahey (11)
Mowen
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
We're not talking about just "calling" the line out. The use of that term absolutely grates me. That makes it sound like the thing is a piece of piss and all you have to do is decide where you're going to win the ball.
Anybody call "call" the line out. The fact of the matter is that some players are better jumpers. Due a number of factors. This includes:
1. being quicker into the air
2. safer hands in the air (oddly sometimes players who couldn't catch a cold in regular play)
3. stronger competing in the air
4. able to read the defensive line out and determine best location to jump
5. able to read the offensive line out and determine best location to compete
6. Ability to get in a better position than the opposition jumper
The Wallabies are not governed by who "Calls" the line out. They are governed by who displays these traits the best to have the strongest line out.
James Horwill is better at these than Sam Carter. (Specifically 3,4 and 6 in my view) Sam Carter has been better around the ground than James in 2014, specifically in the tasks of a tighthead lock. With Rob Simmons the best option at loosehead lock, he provides the attack on the opposing line out so James line out prowess isn't needed in addition when Carter is a more than capable line out jumper in his own right and covers items 1 to 3 and 6 more than adequately.
However, if there was no Simmons, James appears to provide the second best line out centric lock option.
Anybody call "call" the line out. The fact of the matter is that some players are better jumpers. Due a number of factors. This includes:
1. being quicker into the air
2. safer hands in the air (oddly sometimes players who couldn't catch a cold in regular play)
3. stronger competing in the air
4. able to read the defensive line out and determine best location to jump
5. able to read the offensive line out and determine best location to compete
6. Ability to get in a better position than the opposition jumper
The Wallabies are not governed by who "Calls" the line out. They are governed by who displays these traits the best to have the strongest line out.
James Horwill is better at these than Sam Carter. (Specifically 3,4 and 6 in my view) Sam Carter has been better around the ground than James in 2014, specifically in the tasks of a tighthead lock. With Rob Simmons the best option at loosehead lock, he provides the attack on the opposing line out so James line out prowess isn't needed in addition when Carter is a more than capable line out jumper in his own right and covers items 1 to 3 and 6 more than adequately.
However, if there was no Simmons, James appears to provide the second best line out centric lock option.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Yep I do (not in a game where we are flpgging them but in a close gamme)
1.
2.
4. (unsure)
5. No
ChargerWA
Mark Loane (55)
If you were going to give Skelton a run, it would be with Benny Mac at 8. He adds the extra jumper with Palu gone, so you could afford to run Skelton.
Seeing as Jones came onto the bench I think Link is definitely using this period just as a development tool for Skelton.
Seeing as Jones came onto the bench I think Link is definitely using this period just as a development tool for Skelton.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I don't consider Skelton good enough yet to be utilised in a non-injury enforced situation which involves starting players changing positions in case of injury as he is not capable of his role's requirements at test level for a full game. This includes line out impact.
I get the impression that Link doesn't either, hence he is clearly the 5th choice lock. But he will get a good understanding of if he thinks he will be good enough to look at doing things like this, and his added benefits outweigh his deficiencies.
That being said, if we get one more injury to a lock, I'd be confident of him giving at least a decent account of himself. Plenty of very average players have played for the wallabies over the years due to the fact they only had 2 or 3 teams to pick from (LLoyd Johansson certainly comes to mind). With 5 teams now and generally at least 3 other starting players aus eligible to compete with, no just average players make it to test footy for Australia now.
I get the impression that Link doesn't either, hence he is clearly the 5th choice lock. But he will get a good understanding of if he thinks he will be good enough to look at doing things like this, and his added benefits outweigh his deficiencies.
That being said, if we get one more injury to a lock, I'd be confident of him giving at least a decent account of himself. Plenty of very average players have played for the wallabies over the years due to the fact they only had 2 or 3 teams to pick from (LLoyd Johansson certainly comes to mind). With 5 teams now and generally at least 3 other starting players aus eligible to compete with, no just average players make it to test footy for Australia now.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Gotta say, I don't get the kerfuffle over Skelton. Leaving aside the 80 minutes furphy, he's a very young guy who is only into his first full season of Super Rugby. He's obviously being placed around the squad with a view to development. If we win on Saturday, I expect to see Jones rotated out and Skelton given a chance off the bench. But otherwise, I reckon he'll just be a tourist for this series.
EatSleepDrinkRuck
Larry Dwyer (12)
Honestly, I think this makes sense - giving Will an extended break whilst his combination partner QC (Quade Cooper) is also out.
It allows Phipps to progress and cut out those loopy passes.
Further, a fit, rested Genia-Cooper pairing will be vital to carry into the next RWC. I'm not necessarily suggesting they will be the first choice combination, especially in the tight, physical games against the top nations but they provide a spark and creative option that will be vital to have in a tournament setting.
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
Higgers is a very good jumper and could possibly assume the role of main jumper late in the game if Simmons comes off.
People are thinking about 2015. You can't have passengers in a WC squad, and so if we are taking Skelton, he needs to be tested and developed into a test lock in the next 18 months.
Bloke has the potential to be a dominate lock. Something Australia hasn't had consistently (only in patches have Sharpe, Vickerman and Horwill been dominant) for the last 10 years.
People are thinking about 2015. You can't have passengers in a WC squad, and so if we are taking Skelton, he needs to be tested and developed into a test lock in the next 18 months.
Bloke has the potential to be a dominate lock. Something Australia hasn't had consistently (only in patches have Sharpe, Vickerman and Horwill been dominant) for the last 10 years.
He actually does, and has, for the Tahs. I would never go so far as to say he's a frontline jumper, of course, but this myth that he cannot jump needs to be put to bed.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Who in hell lifts big Will high above their head ??????
Everybody jumps to a degree but I was really talking about frontline stuff.
I once actually saw Ben Daley get his feet off the ground
Everybody jumps to a degree but I was really talking about frontline stuff.
I once actually saw Ben Daley get his feet off the ground
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Will Skelton can adequately jump in the line out and take a ball. The issue is that he struggles (due to his main asset, his size) to get up quicker than an opponent.
True, but maybe put him at the front on defensive lineouts - that'll freak the hooker throwing the ball out a bit!
"Try and miss me!"
One thing they've done with Skelton a couple of times this year is stand him at the front of the lineout. He's an option without a lifter that his opposite number can't really compete against (mostly because they'll probably be a prop).
Of course most of the time the Tahs have been running a five man lineout and have Skelton in the midfield to crash the ball up.
Again, I think Skelton has shown more than enough upside to his game to suggest he's a valuable player already at Super Rugby level despite his drawbacks and will do the same in the test arena in the not so distant future.
The Wallabies biggest problem against the All Blacks and Springboks in recent years is that we lose the physical battle in most games. This is surely a major reason there is such interest in Skelton.
Of course most of the time the Tahs have been running a five man lineout and have Skelton in the midfield to crash the ball up.
Again, I think Skelton has shown more than enough upside to his game to suggest he's a valuable player already at Super Rugby level despite his drawbacks and will do the same in the test arena in the not so distant future.
The Wallabies biggest problem against the All Blacks and Springboks in recent years is that we lose the physical battle in most games. This is surely a major reason there is such interest in Skelton.
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