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Wallabies v France - June 14 Etihad Stadium

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Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
To me he would the pefect impact player off the bench with 20 to go. The guy is a giant of a bloke and actually quite athletic for a unit his size.

We do need to blood him for the RWC.

He should come to Queensland where he will be really appreciated
 

rugbysmartarse

Alan Cameron (40)
Who in hell lifts big Will high above their head ??????

Everybody jumps to a degree but I was really talking about frontline stuff.

I once actually saw Ben Daley get his feet off the ground


Horwill is listed on Wikipedia as 117kg. He has no issue being lifted overhead. Skelton is listed as 135kg. Thats 9kg more for each lifter, and around 70kg each. I doubt the increase makes a difference to the lifters, and I also doubt a professional player lacks the strength to throw up significantly more weight than 70kg. Will is probably too big to jump with a single lifter, but that is not uncommon.

The issue is more likely speed of the jump, which is driven by his power production. This should be trained.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Skelton will make his debut if we're up 2-0. No doubt about it.

Lifting a player isn't that hard, the jumper jumps after all and getting him in the air is quite easy for any well built player. The hard part is keeping him up there and keeping them stable as they grab the ball. I reckon the main problem with Will in regards to the lineout is actually getting your palms around his lower thigh for a good lift.
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Skelton will make his debut if we're up 2-0. No doubt about it.

Lifting a player isn't that hard, the jumper jumps after all. The hard part is keeping him up there and keeping them table as they grab the ball. I kid not the problem with Skelton I reckon is actually getting your palms around his lower thigh for a good grab.

Agree, and from the bench - Should be no question
 

Scrubber2050

Mark Ella (57)
Shit I love it when the Wallabies ARE playing well, and are actually favourites. Worth the trip to Melbourne

Wallabies by 15 (against a better French side thyan last week).

Am particularly looking forward to White and Foley cementing a top combination.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
To me he would the pefect impact player off the bench with 20 to go. The guy is a giant of a bloke and actually quite athletic for a unit his size.

We do need to blood him for the RWC.

He should come to Queensland where he will be really appreciated

Or the opposite way around in a similar way to how Samo was used for the Wallabies and Reds.

Start Skelton and get him to bash the opposition and then get replaced at halftime or just afterwards.

I think the physical contest in the first 20 minutes or so can have a huge impact on the overall shape of a game and it can be very hard to win if you lose that early physical contest.
 

Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
Exactly.


You start Skelton, tell him the three most important players in the opposition team and give him orders to charge like a Rhino on meth at them at any opportunity, and if he doesn't have the ball, to hit rucks like a Rhino on meth that's just been branded.

25-30 minutes of him pulverising things, and then bring on a workhorse.

Win the early collisions and establish physical dominance, and you're halfway there.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Horwill is listed on Wikipedia as 117kg. He has no issue being lifted overhead. Skelton is listed as 135kg. Thats 9kg more for each lifter, and around 70kg each. I doubt the increase makes a difference to the lifters, and I also doubt a professional player lacks the strength to throw up significantly more weight than 70kg. Will is probably too big to jump with a single lifter, but that is not uncommon.

The issue is more likely speed of the jump, which is driven by his power production. This should be trained.

It's not that simple.

The modern lift is based a lot on the jumper "springing" off the ground, and then instantly going stiff as a board. Some are better at this than others, and I suspect that it's not something that can really be trained to a great level, like fast twitch muscle fibres.

The front lifter is the main lifter, holding onto the jumper's thighs. Hence the thigh strapping on lineout jumpers. These guys do the harder part of the lift.

The back lifter primarily provides stability, with their hands either under the backside, or on the upper thighs (although this is not a stable lift at all).

Smaller jumpers who can spring quickly off the ground are significantly easier to lift, and may even get higher as their spring is better, allowing the lifting players to fully extend. If the spring isn't great, the lifters will struggle to extend. Trust me, lifting behemoths who don't spring well will really take it ouf of you, profressional player or no.

So you can see why large guys with lower centres of gravity are just an absolute bitch to lift, of which Skelton is one. He'd be a part time guy at best, maybe gone to less than once a game. If any decent opposition jumper marked up on Skelton with a good lifter or two, then they would get in front, hence why Skelton would never be a key target.
 

Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
I don't see why Skelton can't be used as a lifter.

Consider that most tall people have their extra height in the legs, and 75% of the leg is below the point of contact with the lifters hands, why don't we use Skelton to throw up backrowers, or even better, the 2nd rows?

Not Hooper, or he'd never come back down.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
Because then you are one jumping option short of what you were.

Skelton's issue is also, being so big, he has had less of an opportunity to develop his jumping technique as nobody would have been able to lift him in juniors.

Once again hopper's technique offers no advantage. In both cases they are great if you can take the ball unopposed. Obviously the point of calls and line out moves is to try and achieve this, but with decent defence you will still need to be able to outdo your man in defence. This is exactly where Skelton, or Skelton lifting hooper would be lacking.

Secondly, if you swap him with a back rower you then move one of your more mobile higher work rate forwards into the set piece, which means he isn't peeling off the back, a slower tight forward is in his place.

Teams have evolved how they have because that's the best functioning balance generally. When will people understand that when a player does a lot of extra things great, but not his core tasks, it isn't always better.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
Yeah, Skelton would either be redeployed as a lifter in full lineouts or mid field hit up / decoy in shorter lineouts, assuming you have other targets.

Throwing up really shorter jumpers like Hooper might even be an option then, although Hooper with tall lifters would take longer than a typical tall-ish jumper with shorter lifters to reach his peak height. You'd always need two key guys, say Simmons and Fardy, who could operate as your main targets switching between 2 and 4.

If Skelton is strong enough he could be a solo lifter on a lighter guy like Hooper.
 

Ash

Michael Lynagh (62)
BTW, there's a reason your openside sits on the back of the lineout and generally doesn't jump, and that's because you want him to peel off quickly or clean up overthrows.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Yeah, Skelton would either be redeployed as a lifter in full lineouts or mid field hit up / decoy in shorter lineouts, assuming you have other targets.

Throwing up really shorter jumpers like Hooper might even be an option then, although Hooper with tall lifters would take longer than a typical tall-ish jumper with shorter lifters to reach his peak height. You'd always need two key guys, say Simmons and Fardy, who could operate as your main targets switching between 2 and 4.

If Skelton is strong enough he could be a solo lifter on a lighter guy like Hooper.

A throw back to the Under 12's when lineout lifting is introduced, and this typically ends up with the biggest kids lifting the smallest kids.
 
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