Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June

[tragic]

View attachment 7972

Can't think of any other team in world rugby that could manage a loss with those stats.
Maybe we can have a reverse World Cup for winning the stats but losing on the scoreboard. We'd rock at that.
Those stats alone are a damning indictment on our kicking and discipline.
Without being shite at both there's no way that's physically possible.
I'd be pissing myself laughing if I were a Pom (or Eddie Jones)

EDIT: but deep down away from my bravado and my Aussie mates, I'd be a little bit nervous.

 

[Groucho]

Very surprised to see some critical of Hooper, and even one poster not including him in their 23. Remarkable.

The guy is an aggressive no frills sort of player that I thought played very well on Saturday night. Certainly the best player with a yellow jersey on. I think the spotlight should be on the likes of Fardy, Moore, Simmons and to a lesser extent Arnold for their relative lack of physicality at the collisions.

They will need to lift in this test.

Phipps played okay, but looked out on his heels with a good 10-12 minutes to go. IMO that could be something Cheika looks at addressing in test 2 if it's another physical game.

I think both sides have improvement - England need to sharpen up their set piece attack. Wallabies need to get more in the face of the English forwards at the breakdown rather than just go "hunting for the ball" all the time. Sometimes it's better to try and drive over than wait for your 7 or 8 to steal it.

As with the breakdown, I question our guys losing the collisions. Can we have some examples? Apart from Pocock having his eye sockets re-arranged, of course. If a team can win 73% possession and 76% field position in the second half of a test, and be losing the collisions, they must have a helluva fetcher.

 

[oztimmay]

To'omua doing Gym work with the squad today. A good sign he will be right for selection this weekend. Start him on the bench.

(Pic cred ARU)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[galumay]

Start him on the bench.

Well I guess thats better than having him in the 23....

 

[Viking]

As with the breakdown, I question our guys losing the collisions. Can we have some examples? Apart from Pocock having his eye sockets re-arranged, of course. If a team can win 73% possession and 76% field position in the second half of a test, and be losing the collisions, they must have a helluva fetcher.

I can't give you a bad example of the collision but I can certainly give you a good one.

Within the first 3mins of the game England give it to Vunipola (apparently their most destructive ball runner) who is smashed back 2-3 metres by Pocock and Sio.

That was a thing of beauty.

 

[Groucho]

I can't give you a bad example of the collision but I can certainly give you a good one.

Within the first 3mins of the game England give it to Vunipola (apparently their most destructive ball runner) who is smashed back 2-3 metres by Pocock and Sio.

That was a thing of beauty.

Our poaches are better than their poaches.

 

[Viking]

Our poaches are better than their poaches.

Except they made just as many turnovers as we did.

Actually our backrowers were horrible penalty wise, I think Fardy gave away something like 4 penalties. Hooper at least one costing us points, Poey at least one costing us points.

We probably would have won with McCalman, McMahon, and Houston cos they wouldn't have gone for turnovers and cost us points. Now there's food for thought.

 

[Groucho]

Except they made just as many turnovers as we did.

Actually our backrowers were horrible penalty wise, I think Fardy gave away something like 4 penalties. Hooper at least one costing us points, Poey at least one costing us points.

We probably would have won with McCalman, McMahon, and Houston cos they wouldn't have gone for turnovers and cost us points. Now there's food for thought.

Equal poaches are fine. Breakdown stats need to be considered in at least four dimensions: turnovers won, tunovers lost, fast ball for us, slowed ball for them. There were equal turnovers but I think we won clearly on the fast ball front. On the other hand I think our breakdown penalties were for slowing the ball, flopping, diving and not rolling, rather than competing aggressively for turnovers. So perhaps less agression (or recklessness) is needed in defensive situations.

 

[Joe Blow]

Only "played well" for those 45/50 minutes because there were fuckall scrums. even then he got done.

not worth the risk to me. Happy for Smith to get a bench spot over him.

Thats very harsh. This is the same Scott Sio who toweled just about every scrum at the RWC including the Poms. Cole did not all of a sudden become a 75% better scrummager. Sio made some very big carries and hits as well. I think he offers more than Smith or Slipper in general play. Ledesma will sort him out.
I would also point out that it was Mumm packing in behind Sio and on spider cam you can see how loose he was packing and not giving much weight.
Sio should be in the 23 and given a chance to redeem himself.
Start Kepu and Sio I reckon.

 

[Joe Blow]

I would start the same side with Kepu in at TH and Palu at 8.
Go back to a 5/3 bench with Mumm losing his spot to To'omua and I would have a preference for Gill to warm the pine as the back row reserve. Bring him on at the 50 minute mark for Palu. Having a fetcher who can play at speed in the last 20 minutes would be a bonus.

 

[Groucho]

I would start the same side with Kepu in at TH and Palu at 8.
Go back to a 5/3 bench with Mumm losing his spot to To'omua and I would have a preference for Gill to warm the pine as the back row reserve. Bring him on at the 50 minute mark for Palu. Having a fetcher who can play at speed in the last 20 minutes would be a bonus.

Yeah, that's good for me too. Gill could be an impact monster.

 

[tragic]

Leaving Sio in the starting lineup is fraught with danger.
It's not about him anymore
Cole and Poite have created a perception.
If Sio starts Cole will make sure every scrum goes down and the momentum is with him.
Slipper has to start. If it still goes down on Coles side, then doubt comes in about the common denominator and the perception swings our way. And if it doesn't, then bring on the contest. We saw enough at the end in Brisbane to feel confident if they stay on their feet.

 

[Red Rose]

POMS perspective - as many have pointed out the Wallabies had England on toast every time they spun the ball out wide. I could not believe how quickly and frequently your guys had a 2 or 3 on 1 overlap. For England to win last Sat they always needed to try and win the gain line battle and especially the breakdown otherwise your backs would easily have put that game to bed. The stats are amazing, but of course the penalty count negated much of that. Like the vast majority of rugby matches this Sat will be won up front. If your forwards get parity or better than a nice Aus win and a decider in Sydney. EJs has a lot of work ahead of him to improve England's back play (it takes more than a couple of weeks with G.Ella) so England will of course attempt to win via the forwards. What was nice to see from an Eng point of view was that we did score some tries and it was not just boring up your jumper tactics. Avoiding predictability is key.

This week Eng will be working on their defence against the Aus backs and Aus will be working on their scrums. Both sides need to be smart with the ref and adapt if they have to. Hopefully the penalty count will not be decisive either way and it will be the quality of rugby we are all discussing afterwards and not iffy decisions.

Avoiding over reaction is difficult as well. England were not as bad as made out in the RWC, but clearly EJ (Eddie Jones) has made a difference and they have improved. But they are a long way from being a really good side and remain easily beatable for the Wallabies. Conversely I think 1 defeat does not make the Wallabies a poor side - they were clearly rusty and will be much improved this Sat. The fear factor helps as well. England were afraid of being smashed 3-0 so were really up for the 1st test. Now it is Australia's turn to have the fear factor, losing a first ever series to the Poms, and accordingly they will be breathing fire. I expect a massive battle which Aus will win.

Anyhow.....it is great that Union is getting some attention and that stadiums are packed out. The banter between EJs and everyone else in Aus is most amusing. Lancaster would have just been quiet and humble....like his side who would have crumbled in the 1st test.

 

[Ulrich]

I suspect there won't be any more of this?

 

[Dazzling]

Hopefully someone who know a bit more than me about the squad working can sort this out. In the background to the video on the ARU web site titled "Macmahon ready to answer the call" they show the Wallabies signing autographs in Melbourne. Adam Coleman is seated alongside Sekopi Kepu signing a kids book. I had expected those guys who got cut from the initial 39 would have gone back home. Great to see if they are retained within the squad but not what I expected?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

KHunt out for Tests 2 & 3 but Horne possibly OK:

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/series-over-for-hunt/

 

[Braveheart81]

Can't think of any other team in world rugby that could manage a loss with those stats.
Maybe we can have a reverse World Cup for winning the stats but losing on the scoreboard. We'd rock at that.
Those stats alone are a damning indictment on our kicking and discipline.
Without being shite at both there's no way that's physically possible.
I'd be pissing myself laughing if I were a Pom (or Eddie Jones)

It happens. Our wins against Wales in the 2015 RWC and South Africa in the 2011 RWC would have had similar stats against us.

 

[Troy]

I can see scrums being a bit of a lottery in this game anyway, with the way the AAMI park turf has fared in recent games. I'm no groundsman, but can't see that being fixed up properly in such a short space of time.

 

[fatprop]

Some tough questions

Is Sio benched? would Slipper deal better with Cole's set up?

Do we swap Kepu for Holmes? Holmes did OK, but Kepu adds more running threat

Will Simmons be healthy?

Who replaces Pocock? So we had Fardy & Hooper playing wide for the next ruck and Pocock on the ball (a lot like the ABs play actually) Gill is the like for like replacement if we want a pest or McMahon. Or do we go for a more direct, classic 8 and budget 40 minutes of aggressive from Palu

Who plays 12? The backs were pushed out with Horne's injury and I don't think Lilo functions well against rush defenses. Give Kerevi another run? He showed soft hands, but needs deeper, more direct support runners.

Will Horne be right and who would replace him?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Leaving Sio in the starting lineup is fraught with danger.
It's not about him anymore
Cole and Poite have created a perception.
If Sio starts Cole will make sure every scrum goes down and the momentum is with him.
Slipper has to start. If it still goes down on Coles side, then doubt comes in about the common denominator and the perception swings our way. And if it doesn't, then bring on the contest. We saw enough at the end in Brisbane to feel confident if they stay on their feet.

Slipper should start.

If the same thing happens then maybe Captain Stephen should approach the Referee. The Ref is wired. Moore says: That's once Sir", The second time: Sir, that's twice now and nothing is happening" The third time the Ref will be cognizant that the world is listening, including his bosses, and do something about it

Moore actually needs to play from the front and inspire those around him.

Looking forward to the backrow selections - should provide many more pages of discussion. Also the mid field with the Kerevi/Lilo choice

Go the Wallabies