Wallabies v England in Melbourne, 18 June

[Viking]

Morahan. I'd rather we had an out and out winger and finisher with toe. Until Beale, Speight or Tomane are available anyway.

I agree. Although I can see Cheika's reasoning behind Horne, there were already 3 debutants in the squad (mostly forced due to injuries) and it was necessary to have a mix of experience and youth.

Re your last question, Nabuli was in the original squad. He palys 11 for the Reds, and is a big bugger with a bit of toe. Sure, he's inexperienced at this level, but I'd be prepared to say he could make a good fist of it if chosen.

Same as above. Too risky to bring in another rookie (at least for the first test).
Although I would consider it now that we know how solid DHP can be at test level.

 

[Pfitzy]

I'd like to see Horne dropped. His injury was self inflicted and cost us dearly. It was such a poor and disappointing display from a Wallabies Vice-Captain.

I thought Phipps was slow and cumbersome. If Horne didn't injure himself, I think we would have seen half an hour of the pickle at least.

Hooper needs to alter his play a little in attack, even more so now Pocock's out.

I'd like to see him trailing Folau/Kerevi/Kuridrani in attack and popping up on their inside or outside shoulder for an offload. Failing that, hes still in the prime position for an effective clean-out and quick recycle. We were isolated far too much in attack on the weekend with too many forwards thinking about the next phase.

I understand that Cheika wants Fardy (left)and Hooper (right)roaming the tram tacks on each side of the field to exploit their ball carrying abilities. The core of the plan involves quick recycled ball with the big forwards taking hit-ups in the middle of the park, spread to the wider channels for Hooper, Fardy, Folau, K² to make metres in the holes out wide.

The problem on the weekend came on the second and third phases of attack in centre-field. Our "middle-pod" would get tied up in a ruck and the next phase we'd barely have a forward to manage the next ruck.

Someone call Cheika - clearly he's missing a key element of his coaching team.

 

[tragic]

Australia v South Africa in the 2011 RWC, South Africa had 67% possession and 75% territory.

Pocock turned the ball over several times but didn't generate many penalties (penalty count was 5-4 in favour of South Africa).

For all Pocock's domination at the breakdown, South Africa's ruck success was 115/128 for 89.8% vs 45/52 for 86.5% to us.

Undoubtedly Pocock played one of the all time great games and helped us snatch an unlikely victory. That game was more one sided than this test.

Pocock stole the ball a bunch of times but mostly that was when we were under immense pressure in our 22 and just provided a bit of respite for us to kick it away back towards half way.

It's not the possession stats that are the most damning. As you say that's not infrequent, and happens when a strong defensive team (2011 RWC wallabies) comes up against a team with good ball retention but poor attacking penetration (2011 SAF)
It's the line breaks and tries on top of the possession and territory that is inexcusable. And losing with clear dominance in those areas is what makes the wallabies unique. It reflects ill discipline in our own half, poor kicking and exit strategies from our half to protect a lead, and poor goal kicking to extend a lead. It often keeps our opposition in the game. Even against lower ranked sides we don't see as many score line blowouts as other top sides as we let teams back into games too often.
Hopefully Cheika can rectify that.

 

[Viking]

It's not the possession stats that are the most damning. As you say that's not infrequent, and happens when a strong defensive team (2011 RWC wallabies) comes up against a team with good ball retention but poor attacking penetration (2011 SAF)
It's the line breaks and tries on top of the possession and territory that is inexcusable. And losing with clear dominance in those areas is what makes the wallabies unique. It reflects ill discipline in our own half, poor kicking and exit strategies from our half to protect a lead, and poor goal kicking to extend a lead. It often keeps our opposition in the game. Even against lower ranked sides we don't see as many score line blowouts as other top sides as we let teams back into games too often.
Hopefully Cheika can rectify that.

You hit the nail on the head.

To be fair it's been a while since we actually had a player who can catch a high ball and nullify attacking bombs -Folau.

So we finally figured out how to catch the ball, now we just have to figure out what to do with it once we catch it, its totally foreign to us.

 

[Groucho]

The problem for us is that teams have worked Folau out. They don't put up contestable kicks because he's so dangerous coming forward. Instead they kick to him deep and chase hard, in order to close him down from a standing start. His kicking is poor and they know it.

That's okay. The great advantage of having Folau is that he closes down that avenue of attack by his presence, and thus forces teams to kick defensively instead of attacking us with high balls.

The current strategy is simple and correct: Folau passes to a man inside with a bigger boot and a better angle, who also has the option of running if the kick chase is poor. That makes their long kicks quite risky, since it provides an opportunity for the game to open up from the back if they get it wrong. Folau just has to pass it properly, which to be fair he usually does.

So we do know what to do - we just have to do it better.

 

[Tip]

Izzy should be putting up at least 2 Gary Owens for himself each half.

 

[Viking]

The problem for us is that teams have worked Folau out. They don't put up contestable kicks because he's so dangerous coming forward. Instead they kick to him deep and chase hard, in order to close him down from a standing start. His kicking is poor and they know it.

That's okay. The great advantage of having Folau is that he closes down that avenue of attack by his presence, and thus forces teams to kick defensively instead of attacking us with high balls.

The current strategy is simple and correct: Folau passes to a man inside with a bigger boot and a better angle, who also has the option of running if the kick chase is poor. That makes their long kicks quite risky, since it provides an opportunity for the game to open up from the back if they get it wrong. Folau just has to pass it properly, which to be fair he usually does.

So we do know what to do - we just have to do it better.

Added to the problem is the person he's passing too is a poor kicker. Foley the main man - I think his distance has gotten a lot better but certainly hasn't been great in the past. I would say he is a fairly average general play kicker.

Compare this to the Brumbies last year who had Mogg, and White 2 players capable of getting out of our half in one kick - and they did it frequently. If one of these guys weren't available they had Lilo and To'omua to fall back on, both solid kickers too.

We just don't have those distance kickers or kicking options in the wallabies. Foley and now DHP have to do it all themselves.

 

[Joe Blow]

Horne is one of the most reliable Wallabies. He always gives 100% and takes good options, hence the VC last test. He has become a good finisher and his defense is top shelf.
If he is right he will be one of Cheikas first picked. If his health is not 100% then we may see someone else.

 

[Joe Blow]

Regarding the scrum. Our scrum at the RWC was so low and compact and pushed through and slightly up. Our scrum on the weekend didn't look that way at all.
Last year the scrum as a unit would compress just before the engage and they were more or less immovable by legal or other methods. Hope Ledesma can get them back there for this week.

 

[BarneySF]

Why aren't we bombing for Izzy anymore? I remember all the footage of SOO and his early Waratahs days where it was considered nearly a sure-thing.

(Not saying that this is the underlying problem or anything, but it's bloody good telly)

 

[fatprop]

The problem for us is that teams have worked Folau out. They don't put up contestable kicks because he's so dangerous coming forward. Instead they kick to him deep and chase hard, in order to close him down from a standing start. His kicking is poor and they know it.

whereas the ABs work much harder to give the ball receiver options, workrate off the ball is the key, that gives the receiver options and that puts doubt in the minds of the chasers

 

[Strewthcobber]

Why aren't we bombing for Izzy anymore? I remember all the footage of SOO and his early Waratahs days where it was considered nearly a sure-thing.

(Not saying that this is the underlying problem or anything, but it's bloody good telly)

Can our kickers reliably land the ball where it needs to be?

 

[John S]

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/uni...-craig-joubert-on-notice-20160614-gpipdq.html

And there we go.

 

[Scrubber2050]

This scrum issue is just hilarious to me. Now we have Mr Dwyer of Michael Hooper fame coming out and bagging the Poims.

FFS it is simple. Sio got dicked by a smarter and better prop. Sio couldn't adjust.

Imagine if Sio had dicked Cole the same way.

We, Australians, wouldn't be whinging about it.

AND we talk about whinging Poms !!!!!!!!!!

 

[BarneySF]

Can our kickers reliably land the ball where it needs to be?

That's the thing - I always thought if we're in that attacking zone, get the ball in the air and Israel does the rest vs a pinpoint GarryOwen?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Can our kickers reliably land the ball where it needs to be?

Bernard is having some trouble putting over the black dot

 

[Viking]

This scrum issue is just hilarious to me. Now we have Mr Dwyer of Michael Hooper fame coming out and bagging the Poims.

FFS it is simple. Sio got dicked by a smarter and better prop. Sio couldn't adjust.

Imagine if Sio had dicked Cole the same way.

We, Australians, wouldn't be whinging about it.

AND we talk about whinging Poms !!!!!!!!!!

Exactly. All i see in the news and in forums is how Sio was unfairly treated. I'd be very curious if the ref's who reviewed the game thought they made the wrong call and if other rugby minds who aren't Australian feel the same.

What's England's point of view on this.

 

[Slim 293]

I generally don't care much for the Roar, but here's an interesting article from Nicholas Bishop leading up to the test match............

http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/06/0...-of-the-scrum-work-out-in-the-england-series/

Summary: With M.Poite in charge, the importance of the scrum will be magnified in the first Test in Brisbane. Both front rows will have to be seen to be clean technically, and yet do all in their power to shape the referee’s perceptions early on in the game.

England’s scrummaging renewal after the World Cup debris, led by Dan Cole and Dylan Hartley, has been partially rather than totally convincing. They managed to achieve a stable status quo in their last three 6N matches without ever achieving dominance at the set-piece.

Dan Cole against Scott Sio will be a key litmus test in the front row. Cole will look to lever down on Sio with his right arm and attack Stephen Moore the Wallaby hooker on the inside on Aussie ball. On England feed, Cole will become the spearhead of a left-to-right movement designed to swing outside Scott Sio and force the set-piece to disintegrate, or give bullocking no.8 Billy Vunipola a free run at the first back defender.

A continuous run of penalties against either Cole or Sio will probably incur a yellow card, which may be a decisive shift in a match which is likely to be so closely contested!

 

[Tip]

Bernard is having some trouble putting over the black dot

To be fair, he's having trouble putting it over the touch line that's 120m long too

 

[Brumby Runner]

I generally don't care much for the Roar, but here's an interesting article from Nicholas Bishop leading up to the test match....

http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/06/0...-of-the-scrum-work-out-in-the-england-series/

Also, an important point was the bind by Cole on his hooker. He sets up with his left arm close to vertical, ie binding to the shorts of the hooker, so that if he comes under pressure he is free to angle in towards the opposition hooker. That is precisely what he did in the first test scrums and was a sign that Sio had him for strength but the never-vigilant Poite was taken for a ride.