Wallabies v All Blacks Sydney

[Gnostic]

Well Well well.

Some of those who have been constant supporters of Deans are now questioning. Finally.

JOC (James O'Connor) is not a wing, hence why he is constantly caught out of position (and in fairness to him he hasn't played wing at any high level before) and given his defence is as bad as Cooper (without Cooper's consistent attacking advantages) I can see no plae in the 22 for him.

As for Giteau - isn't it obvious now with the many, many times when the pressure is on for him to kick the goal he fails to do so. Contrast this with the most recent example of performance under pressure from Beale. Giteau just hasn't got it to kick at test level. I have no confidence in him kicking for the Wallabies, if he remains at 12 (and I think he goes to the bench as 10/12 cover never to play again under the Deans bench usage policy) he must be relieved of the kicking duties. Please do not bother to quote his kicking stats at S14 level, just tally up all the pressure kicks he has failed to land in the last three seasons and you will have the answer.

 

[cyclopath]

Well Well well.

Some of those who have been constant supporters of Deans are now questioning. Finally.

JOC (James O'Connor) is not a wing, hence why he is constantly caught out of position (and in fairness to him he hasn't played wing at any high level before) and given his defence is as bad as Cooper (without Cooper's consistent attacking advantages) I can see no plae in the 22 for him.

As for Giteau - isn't it obvious now with the many, many times when the pressure is on for him to kick the goal he fails to do so. Contrast this with the most recent example of performance under pressure from Beale. Giteau just hasn't got it to kick at test level. I have no confidence in him kicking for the Wallabies, if he remains at 12 (and I think he goes to the bench as 10/12 cover never to play again under the Deans bench usage policy) he must be relieved of the kicking duties. Please do not bother to quote his kicking stats at S14 level, just tally up all the pressure kicks he has failed to land in the last three seasons and you will have the answer.

Gnostic, don't spoil it by making it another us v them thread. I really don't think anyone was a 100%, failsafe, all the way Deans supporter on every decision.
I agree with most of what you say, especially about Giteau, and JOC (James O'Connor). JOC (James O'Connor) is a real talent, but not at 14. Play him at 12, get Beale to kick / Cooper to back up, Gits to bench as you say. Mitchell and Turner on the wings. Far more dangerous for mine.

 

[louie]

YEs didn't wasn't wonderful... but was cooper any better. It's the tens job to feed his backs through lines and create the play

 

[Gnostic]

O'Connor to 12 for me.

JOC (James O'Connor)'s defence is as bad as Cooper. Look at his stats for last week as well as this week. Considering that all team will be running there big blokes in the 10 channel it will be impossible for Pocock to cover for two defensive liabilities in the midfield. If Giteau is dropped then either start with Barnes or A. Finger. If starting with Finger Giteau is gone from the 22 altogether. Cooper or Beale to kick. JOC (James O'Connor) gone from the 22 and replaced with a Winger.

 

[Scotty]

Our main issue in that second half was the forwards inability to get over the gain line. They either ran out of puff or a relying too heavily on a few to do the work for the whole team. They have to get better at going forward in tight, and get tighter to the ball carrying to effect quicker clean outs and fast pick and gos. We will improve with the likes of Palu, Alexander and Horwill, but the current crop also need to get better at it.

 

[ACT Crusader]

The scrum that led to Rabbits try should never have happened. No forward pass by Jane, not even close. Poor by Lawrence and the Tj.

And agree Richie detatched but like the mcCalman scrum run there were no defenders

Rugby you make the most of the luck that comes your way. Michalek passed forward but the guy that got it still ha to beat two ABs to send us packing at the WC

Detatching from a scrum is as much cheating as passing forward

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Come Hong Kong Deans should be starting Turner and Mitchell on the wings with JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench. When Ioane is back I really cannot see a spot for him. Needs to develop further. Not a winger that's for sure. Genia needs to be benched to send him a message. People are noting his fitness for his form but it appears to be complacency more than anything. Burgess has been rather good in his appearance's so far. Give him a starter's jersey and see if he will capitalise and force Genia to step up.

Funnily enough if that occurred that would mean 4 of the 7 backs would be Tahs player's. As it should have always been. The Tahs have a very talented group, they just play to the wrong tactics.

 

[Mojoman]

Can't believe the Wallabies blew another lead, 22-9 @ one stage? How many games is that now where they blew decent leads? It's definitely not a talent or physical thing, it's got to be mental/confidence.

Richie McCaw is immense, the AB's were toast without him. Winning turnovers, scoring tries, big tackles, inspirational leader and he is the best cheat in the world. He's so good @ cheating that he's got all the Refs conned. That try he scored, he conned both the Ref and Touch Judge..how good is that?

 

[Gnostic]

The scrum that led to Rabbits try should never have happened. No forward pass by Jane, not even close. Poor by Lawrence and the Tj.

And agree Richie detatched but like the mcCalman scrum run there were no defenders

Rugby you make the most of the luck that comes your way. Michalek passed forward but the guy that got it still ha to beat two ABs to send us packing at the WC

Detatching from a scrum is as much cheating as passing forward

Forward passes can happen and are a luck (unlucky) thing in those examples you gave neither player intentionally threw the ball forward. Detaching from the scrum to receive a pass from you 8 who hasn't even picked up the ball in a set move is a prearranged illegailty that has been trained for. Hence true cheating you cannot sugar coat it.

McCalman's run was from 8 so he was always onside unlike McCaw and he stepped Vito to get clear.

 

[cyclopath]

JOC (James O'Connor)'s defence is as bad as Cooper. Look at his stats for last week as well as this week. Considering that all team will be running there big blokes in the 10 channel it will be impossible for Pocock to cover for two defensive liabilities in the midfield. If Giteau is dropped then either start with Barnes or A. Finger. If starting with Finger Giteau is gone from the 22 altogether. Cooper or Beale to kick. JOC (James O'Connor) gone from the 22 and replaced with a Winger.

I disagree - he defends badly on the wing - it is a positional thing. I think he knows 12 better and has defended much better there in the past. His tackling technique is OK, his placement is all wrong.

 

[cyclopath]

Can't believe the Wallabies blew another lead, 22-9 @ one stage? How many games is that now where they blew decent leads? It's definitely not a talent or physical thing, it's got to be mental/confidence.

Richie McCaw is immense, the AB's were toast without him. Winning turnovers, scoring tries, big tackles, inspirational leader and he is the best cheat in the world. He's so good @ cheating that he's got all the Refs conned. That try he scored, he conned both the Ref and Touch Judge..how good is that?

Hey Mojoman, long time no see. Congrats.
I refuse to bite at your stinky bait!!!

 

[BRIX]

Just watching the Aviva Premiership. Harlequins fans are making more noise than we did, pitiful.

 

[Scotty]

The scrum that led to Rabbits try should never have happened. No forward pass by Jane, not even close. Poor by Lawrence and the Tj.

And agree Richie detatched but like the mcCalman scrum run there were no defenders

Rugby you make the most of the luck that comes your way. Michalek passed forward but the guy that got it still ha to beat two ABs to send us packing at the WC

Detatching from a scrum is as much cheating as passing forward

Neither are cheating but both are mistakes by the referee.

One came 40m out from the AB line and effectively caused a turnover. One was right on the Wallaby line and directly lead to a try.

Hard to compare.

 

[Gnostic]

I disagree - he defends badly on the wing - it is a positional thing. I think he knows 12 better and has defended much better there in the past. His tackling technique is OK, his placement is all wrong.

I agree nothing wrong with his technique and I have been surprised by his % of misses and his falling off tackles. I hope you are right about it being positional.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Players purposely pass forward to try and put a team mate in space or to not die with the ball, there's no luck about it. They push the boundaries like those players at the breakdown

 

[Lee Grant]

Just back from the game.

Not too long ago I would have been gutted but I'm so used to it now. I miss not being gutted.

The big Maori guy next to me said it best; something like: "The Wallabies are a long way ahead but they don't know how to win against us." I didn't disagree with him, and when the Blacks scored the last try he said something like: "I wish I could bottle what the All Blacks have. I'd make a fortune."

The Wallabies were good enough to beat the All Blacks 2 out of 3 this year but they were lacking a few bottles of the good stuff.

Bloody hell - at the crossroads and they went down the same path again.

 

[Mojoman]

Forward passes can happen and are a luck (unlucky) thing in those examples you gave neither player intentionally threw the ball forward. Detaching from the scrum to receive a pass from you 8 who hasn't even picked up the ball in a set move is a prearranged illegailty that has been trained for. Hence true cheating you cannot sugar coat it.
.

What a load of bullshit. Having played many years in the backrow, those moves come down to timing. The flanker should detach when the 8 releases his bind to pick the ball up. As soon as the 8 releases his bind the scrum is over..@ the sametime the opposition halfback is entitled to pick the ball up too.

The call could have gone either way just like the calls @ the breakdown.

 

[Lee Grant]

PS - I should have added after scanning some of the other posts

- well done NZ. You played like hatfuls in the first half and some of the second but you had the burning desire and belief which we didn't.

- don't blame the ref. The game was in our hands and we dropped another sitter.

 

[Scotty]

What a load of bullshit. Having played many years in the backrow, those moves come down to timing. The flanker should detach when the 8 releases his bind to pick the ball up. As soon as the 8 releases his bind the scrum is over..@ the sametime the opposition halfback is entitled to pick the ball up too.

The call could have gone either way just like the calls @ the breakdown.

By Robbie's comments in the press conference, he seems to feel that it was a move that was planeed to beat the refs. That is he thought that McCaw purposefully came off the scrum prior to it ending so that he could get in a position to receive the ball. I doubt Deans would say that sort of thing lightly, and he is certainly not a complainer.

 

[Mojoman]

The AB's were terrible in the first 60. They looked like they were the ones coming back from South Africa rather than the Wallabies. IMO 3 factors cost the Wallabies the game;
1. Winning experience/Confidence. Call it what you want but winning becomes habitual, especially in close/pressure situations. The AB's have @ present, the Wallabies are building it.
2. Giteau's goal kicking. Simple, he kicks one more and the Wallabies win.
3. Travel factor. Wallabies were off their feet in the last 10mins. That wasn't a coincidence. 2 weeks of hard rugby in South Africa followed by a trip home, 5 days to prepare, tired bodies, jet lag.