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Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
Take another look. Reid has not yet reached for the ball and Ruchie is several yards away.
They got away with it but it was not legal.
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Toddy
Chris McKivat (8)
Dude, you have surely lost the plot. Did you think one of the Aussies should have been binned for infringing 1m out after tackling Mils? What about a penalty try for collapsing the maul when the All Blacks where only 5m out. Surely that is a 'prearranged illegality'. Or would it only be that if McCaw did it? What about Pococks dodgy technique at the breakdown? Taught to cheat or is it accidental? You do realise what you say of the All Blacks could equally apply to your own team? You'll enjoy rugby a lot more when you do.
After sitting through 1998-2001 when the Aussies just always seemed to win the close ones I know how you guys feel. Especially with missing so many kicks at goal. They played some good rugby and I like how the Aussie back line runs at gaps rather than the man. Beale certainly made Conrad look like a dick a couple of times. He has come on as a player.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Just watched the incident on replay...
How did the refs friggin miss this?!!?
10:42 into the second half Genia chips the ball forward and Nonu comes flying in and just clobbers Giteau around the head! Giteau never even had the ball...
What the hell is Nonu thinking?!
Surely the Kiwis can't dodge such another blatant citing... that SHOULD be a few weeks right there for Nonu...
PS Sorry if this has already been covered but I haven't been through the thread... I"m just shocked by the inadequate officiating and how an act of blatant foul play can go unpunished (so far)...
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
OK, since we're all just throwing shit out there in frustration, I'll do my bit.
1. Genia. Was very good last week. Was very bad this week. This has happened a bit now. I think the guy is not comfortable when the ruck is in trouble. Or maybe, the effort to clear the ball from difficult rucks is impeding his thinking quickly enough about the next one. I think it's a mental / confidence / technique issue which can be addressed by a skills coach at training. But will it?
2. Cooper. The guy is taking the piss with his "defence". I haven't seen his stats but I reckon he got about 5 from 10. Need to get serious about this or dropped. I would drop him even though I though he played a beautiful game, including some of the best field kicking we've had since Lynagh.
3. Giteau. He had a bad game generally, and his place kicking went to pieces after missing two. We need a kicking coach. I think we need to have JOC (James O'Connor) and Ant press for the 12 jersey. For the past 3 seasons, Gits has been a flat track bully, scoring solo tries against Italy but stuffing up our backline when he can't get through.
4. Lawrence. I was taking a special interest since we know he saw my video. I was very disappointed in his imaginary "daylight" rulings, especially when it was NOT applied to the Blacks once, despite people like Smith playing the directly ball in the tackle. My only other complaint is that it is clear that the All Black strategy is to infringe in their own 22. Another game where they are penalised every single time we get down there (on one occasion 3 times in a row) and the ref is nowhere near a yellow card, not even a warning. Aside from that, he got quite a lot wrong for both sides but allowed an attractive sort of game.
Despite losing AGAIN, we actually would have won the game if Gits had kicked one more. In fact, in most ways we played better this week than last week. I think people on this forum were too generous with the Wallabies last week and not generous enough this week.
1. Genia. Was very good last week. Was very bad this week. This has happened a bit now. I think the guy is not comfortable when the ruck is in trouble. Or maybe, the effort to clear the ball from difficult rucks is impeding his thinking quickly enough about the next one. I think it's a mental / confidence / technique issue which can be addressed by a skills coach at training. But will it?
2. Cooper. The guy is taking the piss with his "defence". I haven't seen his stats but I reckon he got about 5 from 10. Need to get serious about this or dropped. I would drop him even though I though he played a beautiful game, including some of the best field kicking we've had since Lynagh.
3. Giteau. He had a bad game generally, and his place kicking went to pieces after missing two. We need a kicking coach. I think we need to have JOC (James O'Connor) and Ant press for the 12 jersey. For the past 3 seasons, Gits has been a flat track bully, scoring solo tries against Italy but stuffing up our backline when he can't get through.
4. Lawrence. I was taking a special interest since we know he saw my video. I was very disappointed in his imaginary "daylight" rulings, especially when it was NOT applied to the Blacks once, despite people like Smith playing the directly ball in the tackle. My only other complaint is that it is clear that the All Black strategy is to infringe in their own 22. Another game where they are penalised every single time we get down there (on one occasion 3 times in a row) and the ref is nowhere near a yellow card, not even a warning. Aside from that, he got quite a lot wrong for both sides but allowed an attractive sort of game.
Despite losing AGAIN, we actually would have won the game if Gits had kicked one more. In fact, in most ways we played better this week than last week. I think people on this forum were too generous with the Wallabies last week and not generous enough this week.
I thought we blew it in the second by trying to protect the lead, we looked too worn out to build pressure with ball in hand
The ABs on the other hand went back to the system that consistently breaks down Aus, they got to the 22 and ground out the game bashing our forwards
The ABs on the other hand went back to the system that consistently breaks down Aus, they got to the 22 and ground out the game bashing our forwards
C
chief
Guest
How do we know Lawrence saw that video?
Does anyone else know why we haven't had a non- South African referee during a Bledisloe Cup game since 2008?
Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
He commented on it for the Saffer press. He thought it was basically stuff all teams do. But I had hoped that subconsciously at least it might have worked on him.
I noticed that last night Richie was having a laugh with him as a scrum was set. Rocky on the other hand clearly hates all refs. Which is understandable but not helpful.
I noticed that last night Richie was having a laugh with him as a scrum was set. Rocky on the other hand clearly hates all refs. Which is understandable but not helpful.
Joe Blow
John Hipwell (52)
Yes, Lawrence was visibly irritated with Rocky. That can't be good. He took a couple of steps back with his referee edicate last night.
While Richie should have been penalised for breaking away from the scrum early when he scored, he himself can hardly be blamed for that.
Nonu's tackle really was not all that bad and a penalty was probably the correct ruling.
There were so many small areas where we lost the game or could have won it if one or two of those had gone our way. That can be said about most rugby games.
Lawrence also made a few errors in our favour. The bottom line is that we didn't have the gas in the tank at the end.
It was a pretty good effort for the first 60 minutes I thought.
The ability to win the tight ones will come soon....but boy it is depressing watching the boys consistently bin winnable tests right now.
While Richie should have been penalised for breaking away from the scrum early when he scored, he himself can hardly be blamed for that.
Nonu's tackle really was not all that bad and a penalty was probably the correct ruling.
There were so many small areas where we lost the game or could have won it if one or two of those had gone our way. That can be said about most rugby games.
Lawrence also made a few errors in our favour. The bottom line is that we didn't have the gas in the tank at the end.
It was a pretty good effort for the first 60 minutes I thought.
The ability to win the tight ones will come soon....but boy it is depressing watching the boys consistently bin winnable tests right now.
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Lawrence repeatedly asked Rocky not to coach him. In the 2nd half at every stoppage Rocky was complaining, even shouting at him. Lawrence remained remarkably calm. If anything it places a huge question mark over Rocky's captaincy under pressure. Hurling abuse at the ref ain't gonna do the job son. Elsom is not good at managing the ref. McCaw is a bloody expert. Horrible reality for Wob fans.
As for the break off the back of the scrum by Reid I also thought McCaw broke way too early.
All in all the ref calls evened out. Crying about the breakdown and Pocock being pinged is just sour grapes. Lawrence laid down the law early and from there he was pretty consistent.
The line at the breakdown has become impossibly thin and I feel sorry for refs because although it is designed to let the game flow, it is nigh impossible to get right and they will always cop it from the losing team.
As for the break off the back of the scrum by Reid I also thought McCaw broke way too early.
All in all the ref calls evened out. Crying about the breakdown and Pocock being pinged is just sour grapes. Lawrence laid down the law early and from there he was pretty consistent.
The line at the breakdown has become impossibly thin and I feel sorry for refs because although it is designed to let the game flow, it is nigh impossible to get right and they will always cop it from the losing team.
Tell you what. Kurtley Beale's starting to get a little bit of the Latham's about him. We could always rely on Latho to get through the first tackle, and KB (Kurtley Beale)'s pretty damn good at that at the moment too. The tackle of Nonu (herding him into touch) was very Latho-esque. And then that high-pressure relieving kick from in-goal off the side off his boot brought back fond memories too.
I'd love the big booming torpedo as well, but that may come..
I'd love the big booming torpedo as well, but that may come..
B
BRIX
Guest
Interesting point about Stirling and having an older head in the mix Mainlander. Where we could take a leaf out of the AB's book is in the assurance that your Captain brings to the team - it may seem elemetry at first glance but Richie dictates and decides procedures and what the best route to take is exceptionaly well...the rest of the team follow the game plan to an absolute tee. The kicks for touch at penalty time, the rolling mauls, the pill kept in close quarters etc. were a testement to the cohesion brings to the team on a whole, everything is done on purpose with purpose
Under Rocky, it seems to me as if the Wallabies play individualy and have no real game plan with their noses in front. They capitulate and play percentages rather than the Intelligent Rugby thats required. Although I love Elsoms brand of football, we cannot escape the fact that he is a little arrogant and egocentrical at times...I wonder just how much his decision making and communication skill set effects the team.
Again, well played Black
Under Rocky, it seems to me as if the Wallabies play individualy and have no real game plan with their noses in front. They capitulate and play percentages rather than the Intelligent Rugby thats required. Although I love Elsoms brand of football, we cannot escape the fact that he is a little arrogant and egocentrical at times...I wonder just how much his decision making and communication skill set effects the team.
Again, well played Black
B
BRIX
Guest
Re-post but none the less relevent. Apolagies
Kangaroo Sausage
Peter Burge (5)
2 verry worrying things for the Wallabies in that game:
1. Its all very well to say that they were only one point away but when are the ABs going to give them a chance like that again? They were horrible for the majority of that game and if the Wallabies are going to beat them they 'll have to be much better next time.
2. The way they let the ABs come back indicates a team who is mentally inferior. It wasnt like the Blacks ripped them open with a couple of pieces of brilliant play, just McCaw in particular and the forwards generally stole it with brute force and strength of will. It was probably dawning on them in the build up to McCaws try but must have hit home at that point, they just seemed to fold mentally like "here we go again". There is no way a team who really believed they could win would have coughed that game up.
1. Its all very well to say that they were only one point away but when are the ABs going to give them a chance like that again? They were horrible for the majority of that game and if the Wallabies are going to beat them they 'll have to be much better next time.
2. The way they let the ABs come back indicates a team who is mentally inferior. It wasnt like the Blacks ripped them open with a couple of pieces of brilliant play, just McCaw in particular and the forwards generally stole it with brute force and strength of will. It was probably dawning on them in the build up to McCaws try but must have hit home at that point, they just seemed to fold mentally like "here we go again". There is no way a team who really believed they could win would have coughed that game up.
louie
Desmond Connor (43)
My problem Lawrence was
1.his lack of consistent rulings at the breakdown at bothsides. If you want an open ruck then come down on everything
2. I'm getting sick of refs feeling they need to have themselves felt in thr first 20. If your gonna be a prick do the full 80. Stop bloody changing!
3. His dealing with rocky. Refs should allow the cap to talk, not bluntly ignore then and argue. Times last night he was just big headed
1.his lack of consistent rulings at the breakdown at bothsides. If you want an open ruck then come down on everything
2. I'm getting sick of refs feeling they need to have themselves felt in thr first 20. If your gonna be a prick do the full 80. Stop bloody changing!
3. His dealing with rocky. Refs should allow the cap to talk, not bluntly ignore then and argue. Times last night he was just big headed
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
Great post, welcome aboard.
I can't remember the ABs playing worse. They were very flat and made a bucketload of uncharacteristic mistakes. And still they just managed to graft together and pull out a win despite the Wallabies having dominated for 60 minutes. An immense choke job by our guys. But I'm also surprised it took so long for the ABs to look to tighten the game up. I can't understand why they were playing rugby that suited us ?
I thought our forward pack went OK considering we were playing with 6 men. #1 & #4 are passengers, perennial bludgers. Pocock was exposed as pretty one dimensional. He couldn't adjust. Our ruck work sucked. Nobody other than McCalman and Moore seem to understand the concept of cleaning out. They all go for the gloryhunting pilfer, standing over the ball.
The halves really seem to struggle under pressure. I thought Cooper really didn't want to know about it in the last 10 minutes. He had the Berrick Barnes sook face on. Giteau is only there for his goal kicking for mine, so I was thoroughly underwhelmed. We need an elite goal kicking option, we can't afford not to cash in 11 points against the ABs. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) & Beale were terrific.
Good to see Robbie Deans coming around to getting the bench on.
TheRiddler
Dave Cowper (27)
Thought it was interesting how he handled Rocky's complaint that the Blacks were consistently giving away penalties in their half/22. He asked his TMO (I think) over the refs radio what the penalty count was in that area of the field and the TMO advised it was 3-2 against the Blacks. Straight away Lawrence had the intelligent info to tell Rocky what the exact situation was and neutralise his complaint in an instant.
Watched the replay again this morning and McCaw had definitely broken away from the scrum before Read disengaged to pick the ball up. That incident happened adjacent to where I was sitting and it looked very suss at the time. On the replay, you can see Lawrence standing at the back of the scrum and looking at the ball so how he didnt see what happened is beyond me. But them's the breaks.
I think we should have planend better for the last twenty minutes. We KNEW we would tire and the ABs would come at us. When we had those penalties in the first twenty when we were well on top I reckon Rocky should have kicked to the corner instead of a 50/50 penalty shot. Tested the AB line while they were playing badly. Backed our attack like the ABs did in the last 20. Hindsight is a marvellous thing but I think we didn't cash in enough points while we were on top.
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