Wallabies v All Blacks Melbourne

[Thin Thighs]

I was having trouble with the reception because there was a storm in the area and I was following it on Planet Rugby as well.
I read that Mitchell had been given a red and I walked away. It is the first time I have ever walked away from watching a Wallaby test.
Joubert was just being himself and you cannot blame him or the touchies.
There was no real reason to think we might win this game but the performance was very disappointing. It was areas where professional rugby players should be proficient where we let ourselves down.
Tackling, passing, catching, re-starts etc.

Anyway, we live to fight another day and the ABs are a side well and truly on top of their game. Congrats to them.

If this was a performance of the musical "Cats", or something by the Royal Aust Ballet at the Opera House, the paying public would be demanding their money back from the professional entertainers on stage.

There are articles here and in the paper about the dwindling market share of Rugby in a tough market.

Put simply the professional entertainers are not performing like professionals.

Sport is no longer the honourable and noble past time it once was. Top level sport is part of the entertainment business. The Wobbolies are entertainers competing for a slice of our hard earned, and reducing, discretionary disposable income.

Punters stop going to the Ballet if the bloke that chucks the girl up in the air halfway through Act 1 doesn't catch her on the way down. Imagine how slim the crowds would be at Cirque de Soleil if the gymnasts and performers there performed at similar unprofessional levels. No one would pay $100 to watch that.

 

[Langthorne]

Doh!

The ABs were very good indeed, and probably enjoyed a lot of luck in the close calls, but the Wallabies helped them out a lot.

There are areas where the players need to improve:

THE FUNDAMENTALS. Passing, catching, tackling...Please everyone stop using Robbiespeak and calling them 'little things' - they are big mother fucking things if you aren't doing them.

CONSISTENCY. Week to week, match to match, minute to minute. If you want to win, there is no place for letting the intensity drop. There were some excellent passages of play, especially in the second half, but they were too few and far between.

PLAYING SMART. We can beat the All Blacks (even with the exact team that played this match), but we need to be one step ahead of them to have a chance...Rocky needs to work better with the ref. Mitchell needs to engage the brain (the first yellow was BS, but the second was all his fault). Players need to take the right 'split second' options (eg JO'C should have thrown the pass to Horne).

AGGRESSION. Everyone. All the time. Mumm and Sharpe made a lot of hit ups, but they seemed to lack leg drive in contact. Robinson and Moore seemed a bit behind the pace (and way down on what they are capable of). Brown (with limited success) and Elsom (with much more success) showed good aggression. I don't believe the team lacks heart at all, but they do sometimes fall short on channelling it.

There are a few areas where coaching and coaching decisions could be improved:

COLLECTIVE WORK. The restarts and contesting opposition ball are things that must be drilled in training. They are collective endeavours - one guy can't do it alone, you need everyone else to be successful. One observation regarding restart reciept - standing on the 10m line (especially on the 'backs' side) is utterly useless, if the ball is landing near the 10m line you need to be in motion to be able compete for it, and if it is long you won't have to run backwards.

THE BENCH. Use them. Early if neccessary. Giving a guy 3 minutes for show is just plain crap. Having fresh reserves at the end of the match is a waste.

STRUCTURE. I think we need to move back along the spectrum towards a few structured plays - not to the other end of the spectrum, but a few secure drilled options would be nice. Sure, if something opens up in front of you, go for it, but a few plays that create space and exert pressure wouldn't go astray either.

 

[DPK]

DPK, I always respect your views. Why was 'the gameplan terrible'? What needs to be done about that deficiency? Who is responsible and accountable for that deficiency? Why were these Wallabies 'insane'?

One out running isn't going to work if you don't aim to have quick ball after every tackle. Stopping and having a little breather, then tossing the ball to a flat footed forward who gets smashed by rushing defense.

Basically, the Wallabies were flat footed all night.

Obivously, the players are responsible! Robbie may teach them the gameplan during the week, but these players should be able to see that the gameplan isn't working and then try to do something different.

I provided the old "definition" of insanity.

 

[chief]

My fucking god.

Those three words should describe what we are all feeling.

If Robbie Deans does not wield the axe after this week, then we know what a fucking idiot he is. I expected a loss but not of mammoth proportions

 

[Thin Thighs]

My fucking god.

Those three words should describe what we are all feeling.

If Robbie Deans does not wield the axe after this week, then we know what a fucking idiot he is. I expected a loss but not of mammoth proportions

Spot on Chief,

Many of us predicted a decent margin victory to the AB's by 15 or so points but If the AB's hadn't cruised through the motions in the second 40, against the brave 14 in Gold, we could have seen 60-70 points posted by the AB's.

 

[Gnostic]

1) Who will replace Deans and what makes you think that person could do a better job with the same cattle?
2) Who is eligible for Wallaby selection to replace those current players who should be sacked and would they do a better job?

Part of the problem is that many of the players and the coaches are comfortable. They are and play like public servants, no matter how crap they just won't get dropped.

My Alternate team:-
Coaches:- Deans, Foley, Mooney
1. Robinson
2. Fainga'a
3. Slipper
4. Mumm
5. Douglas
6. Higginbum
7. Pocock
8. McCalman
9. Genia
10. Barnes
12. A. Fainga'a
13. Horne
11. Shepard
14. Turner
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

16. Moore - under pressure from Fitzpatrick
17. Fairbrother - When Palmer returns from injury he will pressure for this pot
18. Douglas
19. Hodgeson
20. Burgess
21. Beale
22. JOC (James O'Connor)

To just say oh well we don't have the cattle is tantamount to just giving up. If those players you have tried are not up to it then try somebody else. If DEans won't remove his ability to select etc and ensure that he resigns. DO NOT sack him as he does not deserve an termination payment. The performance of the national team has been declining for two years yet Deans has stubbornly stayed with the same core of INDIVIDUALS such as Giteau and Elsom.

Those who for example say Higginbum is untried and shirks the hard work at the breakdown are inconsistant as they then support Elsom. Have a look at every game this year, Elsom has swanned around and left the breakdown to Pocock. His great game last week was played in the centres and on the wing and he got away with it because the Boks committed no one to the breakdown.

The FACT is that this is a bunch of players used to losing and have all the excuses for it. Picking untried and fresh players and dropping the non performers from the squad altogether may not change the result but we would at least then see who really wants to get back in the Wallabies. I think you would see Giteau and Elsom at least go to Europe.

 

[WB3]

Part of the problem is that many of the players and the coaches are comfortable. They are and play like public servants, no matter how crap they just won't get dropped.

My Alternate team:-
Coaches:- Deans, Foley, Mooney
1. Robinson
2. Fainga'a
3. Slipper
4. Mumm
5. Douglas
6. Higginbum
7. Pocock
8. McCalman
9. Genia
10. Barnes
12. A. Fainga'a
13. Horne
11. Shepard
14. Turner
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

16. Moore - under pressure from Fitzpatrick
17. Fairbrother - When Palmer returns from injury he will pressure for this pot
18. Douglas
19. Hodgeson
20. Burgess
21. Beale
22. JOC (James O'Connor)

To just say oh well we don't have the cattle is tantamount to just giving up. If those players you have tried are not up to it then try somebody else. If DEans won't remove his ability to select etc and ensure that he resigns. DO NOT sack him as he does not deserve an termination payment. The performance of the national team has been declining for two years yet Deans has stubbornly stayed with the same core of INDIVIDUALS such as Giteau and Elsom.

Those who for example say Higginbum is untried and shirks the hard work at the breakdown are inconsistant as they then support Elsom. Have a look at every game this year, Elsom has swanned around and left the breakdown to Pocock. His great game last week was played in the centres and on the wing and he got away with it because the Boks committed no one to the breakdown.

The FACT is that this is a bunch of players used to losing and have all the excuses for it. Picking untried and fresh players and dropping the non performers from the squad altogether may not change the result but we would at least then see who really wants to get back in the Wallabies. I think you would see Giteau and Elsom at least go to Europe.

Word.
Though within his current squad I think Robbie has left himself with few options in some places, I'd branch out and pick some blokes who showed some genuine ticker. They can have all the skill in the world and get nowhere if they don't want it. I assume you would want to reinsert Cooper for Barnes when he returns from suspension and bump Beale out of the 22.
I'm also going to go ahead and COMPLETELY contradict my statement (Re: Cooper) by saying that we should pick a team of the hardest defenders we can find. Forget attack, tries will come with some physical dominance. In this respect, perhaps Barnes would be the option. I bolded Douglas because I'm a massive fan and because in the S14 he epitomised the attitude I want.

 

[barbarian]

You lose your credibility their Gnostic by picking Barnes.

I don't think Gits was too bad actually. I kind of understand your point about firing a few rockets, but lets not go overboard here.

 

[Thin Thighs]

Now here's a lesson from History (albeit AB history). Thanks to wikipedia for the detail. Cut and paste is much easier than relying on faded memories and typing as you recall.

The Cavaliers was the name given to an unofficial New Zealand rugby union team which toured South Africa in 1986.

The rebel tour occurred after the official All Black tour planned for 1985 was cancelled due to a legal ruling that it would be incompatible with the NZRFU's legally stated purpose: "...the fostering and encouragement of the game of rugby..."[1].

The team included 28 of the 30 players who had been selected for the All Black tour, and they were widely believed to have received large secret payments—a controversial issue at a time when rugby union was still supposedly an amateur sport[2].

The Cavaliers were coached by Colin Meads and captained by Andy Dalton and won just one of the four matches against South Africa, although they won seven of their eight other games on the tour. Dalton, however suffered a broken jaw In the second match of the tour and played no more rugby that season.

On their return, the NZRFU barred all the players from participating in the next two All Black tests, and instead selected a new group of players. Most of these replacement players were younger, and were quickly dubbed the "Baby Blacks".

While some of the Cavaliers returned to the AB's, The Baby Blacks formed the nucleus of the AB team who went on to win the inaugural (and so far ONLY) Rugby World Cup the following year.

Is their time and courage for the ARU to do likewise?

 

[#1 Tah]

Part of the problem is that many of the players and the coaches are comfortable. They are and play like public servants, no matter how crap they just won't get dropped.

My Alternate team:-
Coaches:- Deans, Foley, Mooney

Seriously?

 

[Gnostic]

Now here's a lesson from History (albeit AB history). Thanks to wikipedia for the detail. Cut and paste is much easier than relying on faded memories and typing as you recall.





While some of the Cavaliers returned to the AB's, The Baby Blacks formed the nucleus of the AB team who went on to win the inaugural (and so far ONLY) Rugby World Cup the following year.

Is their time and courage for the ARU to do likewise?

Also remember when the Qld players withdrew support for Bob Dwyer and refused to play over the Captaincy being given to Ella? Some players were picked from relative obscurity to play for the Wobbs then.

And Barbarian I went for Barnes because Cooper is injured. When he returns Barnes drops to bench and JOC (James O'Connor) is gone. The fact is there are options that can be taken that would do no worse than the tripe served up by the starlets in the current team. Giteau is gone totally for the simple fact that in 8- tests he has not developed the edge required or the leadership expected from a senior player.

 

[Gnostic]

Seriously?

Absolutely. The Reds backline play is totally the creation of Mooney. The consistancy and application in the pigs was down to Mackenzie and the hard head of Humphries telling the youngsters if they didn't get stuck in to the opposition he was going to belt them.

 

[Ruggo]

NZ were smarter in how they handled the surface is also a big thing. They used their passing game to alter the direction of attack to great effect. We used indidual footwork to no effect as how many times did O'Connor slip on the surface trying to step. This killed opportunity for us.

 

[Ruggo]

Absolutely. The Reds backline play is totally the creation of Mooney. The consistancy and application in the pigs was down to Mackenzie and the hard head of Humphries telling the youngsters if they didn't get stuck in to the opposition he was going to belt them.

Agreed. Link put the control element into it. Mooney would make a great skills coach for the Wallabies.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Now here's a lesson from History (albeit AB history). Thanks to wikipedia for the detail. Cut and paste is much easier than relying on faded memories and typing as you recall.



While some of the Cavaliers returned to the AB's, The Baby Blacks formed the nucleus of the AB team who went on to win the inaugural (and so far ONLY) Rugby World Cup the following year.

Is their time and courage for the ARU to do likewise?

I'd be fine with that, but who would these replacement players be?

 

[Gnostic]

Look back up the thread.

 

[Hawko]

Doh!

The ABs were very good indeed, and probably enjoyed a lot of luck in the close calls, but the Wallabies helped them out a lot.

There are areas where the players need to improve:

THE FUNDAMENTALS. Passing, catching, tackling...Please everyone stop using Robbiespeak and calling them 'little things' - they are big mother fucking things if you aren't doing them.

CONSISTENCY. Week to week, match to match, minute to minute. If you want to win, there is no place for letting the intensity drop. There were some excellent passages of play, especially in the second half, but they were too few and far between.

PLAYING SMART. We can beat the All Blacks (even with the exact team that played this match), but we need to be one step ahead of them to have a chance...Rocky needs to work better with the ref. Mitchell needs to engage the brain (the first yellow was BS, but the second was all his fault). Players need to take the right 'split second' options (eg JO'C should have thrown the pass to Horne).

AGGRESSION. Everyone. All the time. Mumm and Sharpe made a lot of hit ups, but they seemed to lack leg drive in contact. Robinson and Moore seemed a bit behind the pace (and way down on what they are capable of). Brown (with limited success) and Elsom (with much more success) showed good aggression. I don't believe the team lacks heart at all, but they do sometimes fall short on channelling it.

There are a few areas where coaching and coaching decisions could be improved:

COLLECTIVE WORK. The restarts and contesting opposition ball are things that must be drilled in training. They are collective endeavours - one guy can't do it alone, you need everyone else to be successful. One observation regarding restart reciept - standing on the 10m line (especially on the 'backs' side) is utterly useless, if the ball is landing near the 10m line you need to be in motion to be able compete for it, and if it is long you won't have to run backwards.

THE BENCH. Use them. Early if neccessary. Giving a guy 3 minutes for show is just plain crap. Having fresh reserves at the end of the match is a waste.

STRUCTURE. I think we need to move back along the spectrum towards a few structured plays - not to the other end of the spectrum, but a few secure drilled options would be nice. Sure, if something opens up in front of you, go for it, but a few plays that create space and exert pressure wouldn't go astray either.

In my opinion this is the best analysis of last night on this site by a long chalk!

 

[Thin Thighs]

NZ were smarter in how they handled the surface is also a big thing. They used their passing game to alter the direction of attack to great effect. We used indidual footwork to no effect as how many times did O'Connor slip on the surface trying to step. This killed opportunity for us.

It also comes down to preparation.
In the olden (and more simple) days when everyone wore black boots and white laces with screw in studs, most players kept several lengths of studs in their bag to deal with different ground conditions. In the wet, and sandy conditions, in went the long studs. On the dry, hard surfaces, the shorter the better.

Fast forward to now. It is actually difficult to actually get a pair of non-moulded sole boots, and most of these are of the "blades" type. While these are generally ideal for the traditional hard australian ovals where games are generally played in dry conditions, in wet and muddy conditions, and on shifting surfaces, the moulded soles seem to be a bit of a liability. Screw in studded boots are not readily available in most your run of the mill sports stores. You have to go searching for specialist suppliers.

Also players and teams have all sorts of commercial arrangements with manufacturers to wear pretty coloured boots that may prevent them from wearing alternates when the conditions dictate it.

In a couple of close up shots last night, I did see that the AB piggies were wearing what I would call "long studs".
On a shifting surface this would make sense.

There were no close ups of any of the backs boots that I can recall, but they all appeared to be wearing "normal" blade type boots.
Is this why JO'C, and others, slipped over?

In motor racing, tyre choice is critical to chances of victory. Have the rugby equivalents of drivers and crew chiefs (players and coaches) not understood the importance of matching tyre selection to surface and environmental conditions?

 

[JJJ]

Does a cap count in disqualifying you from playing for any other international team if you got it sitting on the bench? That's the only reason I can think of for a 3min cap, unless Deans sent him on with instructions to go for the bp try at all costs.

 

[Scorz]

Not gonna say much, just that I'd like to thank Robbie for vindicating my support of his naming Dick Brown at 8 - he's so fucking shit it makes me laugh and Drew Mitchell would be a good player if he could keep his discipline. Good runner but thick as pigshit.