Wallabies Tri Nations
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Ted Fahey (11)
Yes that's it, I bow to your superior knowledge of front row play. I see clearly via your posts you are a guru of scrummaging and that I should call John O'Neill and tell him to get you straight into the Wallabies camp. I'm just really annoyed I didn't learn anything from playing 2nd row in first grade club rugby both in New Zealand and Sydney. I musn't have learnt anything about scrummaging from those multiple training sessions from both the Blades brothers and plenty with Simon Kerr. I guess I have wasted the last 3 years coaching at grade level in Sydney. Pull your head in.
Ma'afu, in my opinion (and Robbie Deans' and Noriegas' - both of whom I can guarantee knows more about scrummaging than you) was the form Australian tighthead in the super 14. His best 2 games were against the Blues where he dominated Woodcock and against the Sharks where he got on top of the Beast. The only bad game he had was against a very good crusaders pack in christchurch, where by the way your hero Al Baxter got penalised heavily. What did Dan Palmer do during the super 14? Played in a loss against the Highlanders? Fuck all if you ask me. As for Al Baxter, he gets whistled off the park in big internationals and big super 14 games (see the crusaders game this year), Deans' has witnessed this first hand and has had enough. It was easy selection if you ask me, but I know nothing about scrummaging according to the almighty guru you are.
The 2nd row - we've been over this, Sharpe and Mumm (not Douglas, who looked good as he was a new cap and flavour of the month, try actually watching a game for once) were the form locks in the super 14. Without Horwill, Chisholm is the only real tough bastard left (bar Van Humphries who I thought was worth a shot, but since he's over 20 you probably just ignore him). After the 3 you keep saying should be dropped the rest (beyond Simmons and maybe Douglas) are crap and are not worth trying until they prove themselves at super 14 level.
Hooker - they blooded Faiangaa FFS. Fitzpatrick needs S14 game time plus Deans would have had a good look at him in squad. Charles? Are you serious he was behind Whittaker at the Force (who would have been a much more plausible option), nowhere near test rugby. Deans was trying to win some tests and Huia Edmonds had shown form as an impact sub during super 14, he added something off the bench no-one else could.
I am certainly glad you are not a Wallaby selector. We would have lost all 3 tests so far this year. Your posts show no logic and I doubt you actually watch any games let alone understand what is going on you clown.
T
TOCC
Guest
Settle down ladies
Reddy!
Bob Davidson (42)
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
I doubt MMM went to Japan as he couldn't cut it as a Wallaby Joe Blo. At the time the young bloke would of been carrying alot of baggage. His career was being destroyed through injury and he had just recently lost his father. The passing of his father alone would of cut him to shreads emotionally. Japan could well of been a sea change for him to make some money (seeing as his injuries would of severly cut his earning capacity throughout the life span of his career) and play less intense rugby to get his career back on track.
I sure hope we have not seen the last of MMM and I don't think we have.
I sure hope we have not seen the last of MMM and I don't think we have.
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
I would be very happy to see Greg Holmes take one of the two remaining spots. He fills the bench prop spot well with experience, capacity to play both sides well (as demonstrated this year for the Reds) and a good work rate around the park. I would be happy to see Shepherd take the other.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
You still willfully misread but that is just indicates you need to stay at grade level. Fainga'a got a start because he was last man standing. He was indeed the obvious choice once TPN and Moore were injured.
Go back and look at the stats on who was most penalised in the S14 at prop they were posted on this site at the end of the S14. 1. Alexander 2. Ma'afu. Indeed the Tahs scrum stats fell away after the injuries to TPN and Robinson and they ended up having one of the least stable platforms statistically, in the S14 from the Oz teams. You are the only poster I have seen who still rates Ma'afu. Even the Brumbies die hards would have been happy to see the back of him except for the fact that only Weeks, Fairbrother, Dunning, Shepherdson and Slipper remain standing out of all the S14 props able to play THP. The fact that Palmer is that bad the Brumbies signed him for next year obviously escaped you.
You keep throwing up names I did not even consider such as Whitakker and Van Humpries because they are injured and have been for a while, so why even discuss them being a better choice.
Try and read before resorting to abuse and name calling.
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
As you imply Langthorne, we'd all be much more comfortable if selection was the only issue we all had to worry over.
It would be terrific if we could trust that a good team culture, tough, winning mindset etc was assured to be on the park for 80, and that game plans were coherent and relentlessly rehearsed.
If only.
It was only in 1 of the 4 June Tests (Perth) that Wallaby team mind seemed solid and focussed, and where at least back line plays seemed properly designed and well executed. In no other match of the 4 was that true. The moment any opposition team turned on a blast of their own intensity, fast play and consistency - Sydney - we lost the match. All the others were second to third rate teams on their days here. And we couldn't manage to win one BaaBaas match.
You won't see a better analysis of the deeper problems with these Wallabies than Austin's of the back line's lack of structured aggression and viable attack plans. And AWOL back line coaching. And the excuse of 'injuries' does not apply there.
Whatever, the moment of truth is upon Deans and these Wallabies. We only have to wait a few nervous weeks to know. The apologists will be seeking out new theories for salvation and RWC glories to come, but let's please all be honest with each other: if the Wallabies only win 2 games (or worse) out of 6 3N, after last year's similar result and the promises from early 2008, this will surely constitute a disaster for the elite end of the Australian rugby system and for the best traditions of the Wallaby name. Should this occur, Deans should of his own initiative then resign to permit a legitimate restructuring of the whole enterprise.
If we win 3 3N games, perhaps the benefit of some of the doubt should (just) be granted. Better than 3, the current sceptics can all celebrate the joys of being wrong with the right outcome secured.
Gnostic
Mark Ella (57)
Well said. I don't know I want to see Deans resign but definitely accept he has made some very significant errors of judgement. ATM I don't see a viable alternative coach. As much as I like Link and applaud the Reds success this year, I still feel the Reds counter attack and back line play in general was more to do with Mooney than Link.
HG
Jimmy Flynn (14)
This is so true. But I will add one more for you. The defensive pattens they used this year devised by Matt Taylor (employed by Link) were also a great help.
matty_k
Peter Johnson (47)
He's doing alright in the life category. His decision making skills are little lacking right now.
Hopefully one of those two places left are for Shmoo assuming he has another blinder this weekend.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Regarding 3M, his better performances were at lock, and not 6. 6 he seemed to go missing and struggle at times, plus as mentioned his body height was often too high. But playing tighter at lock, 3M often stood out with his agression and good work rate. Was a shame to see him go.
I tend to agree with thatguy, Deans' options were limited in the forwards. For the props, Ma'afu would've been my first selection as well. I believe the stats were that the Brumbies had the most collapses, not penalties against them, but my memory is not the best right now. Either way, Ma'afu was, for me too, the form Aus TH, but I think my wake up call was the test vs Fiji, when he struggled against his club prop brother. My only criticism for Deans in that regard is ignoring Fairbrother and Baxter once it was clear Ma'afu was not up to it. Baxter is a moot point now anyway, as he is injured. Palmer is a pot plant, and I don't think that Deans tolerates pot plants, regardless of their scrummaging abilities.
At hooker, Fitzpatrick, Whitaker and Charles appear smaller or about the same size as Fainga'a, and less developed than Edmonds. I hated the choice of Edmonds, but am willing to admit those guys should have another year or two at S14 before they play and can live with the selection of Fainga'a and Edmonds. My only question was why Edmonds was initially selected ahead of Fainga'a.
At lock, once again agree with thatguy. The form Aus locks in S14 went Sharpe, Mumm, Humphries (at 34? years old). Douglas was a new face who held up well, but he was not a stand out for me. None of the other locks convinced me they can do the job as well as those three, and Mumm is struggling. Simmons and Douglas have pontential, but I wouldn't have wanted to throw them in the deep immediately. Those other guys mentioned, Wykes, Hockings, etc are S14 journeymen so far - they have not stood out in any area (such as being a lineout target, or a grafter, or high workrate, or agression, etc) to be considered a test prospect as of yet.
I can't fault the criticism of Deans with his woeful use of the bench, but really, his hands have been tied with his forwards. Sure, I would've done a few things differently - called up Baxter after Ma'afu struggled vs Fiji and then got hammered vs England, for instance, but would that have changed much? I doubt it. I think our starting pack of fully fit players can stand up at test level - but unlike teams like SA and NZ who can slip in test quality players if one goes down (NZ with McCaw excepted), we simply can't. Horwill, Palu, Alexander, Robinson are injured and are irreplacable in Aus as the next step down is indeed, a long way down. The one position we had two world class players in was hooker, and both of them got crocked. The only thing worse would've been the loss of Pocock.
Really, blooding more inexperienced players sounds great in hindsight, but just as likely could have led to (even more) humilating losses, at the slightest chance that we might have uncovered one rising star from amongst the up and comers / journeyman. I think that if we did swap in a lot of the players named and they struggled, the knives for Deans would've been even sharper.
I tend to agree with thatguy, Deans' options were limited in the forwards. For the props, Ma'afu would've been my first selection as well. I believe the stats were that the Brumbies had the most collapses, not penalties against them, but my memory is not the best right now. Either way, Ma'afu was, for me too, the form Aus TH, but I think my wake up call was the test vs Fiji, when he struggled against his club prop brother. My only criticism for Deans in that regard is ignoring Fairbrother and Baxter once it was clear Ma'afu was not up to it. Baxter is a moot point now anyway, as he is injured. Palmer is a pot plant, and I don't think that Deans tolerates pot plants, regardless of their scrummaging abilities.
At hooker, Fitzpatrick, Whitaker and Charles appear smaller or about the same size as Fainga'a, and less developed than Edmonds. I hated the choice of Edmonds, but am willing to admit those guys should have another year or two at S14 before they play and can live with the selection of Fainga'a and Edmonds. My only question was why Edmonds was initially selected ahead of Fainga'a.
At lock, once again agree with thatguy. The form Aus locks in S14 went Sharpe, Mumm, Humphries (at 34? years old). Douglas was a new face who held up well, but he was not a stand out for me. None of the other locks convinced me they can do the job as well as those three, and Mumm is struggling. Simmons and Douglas have pontential, but I wouldn't have wanted to throw them in the deep immediately. Those other guys mentioned, Wykes, Hockings, etc are S14 journeymen so far - they have not stood out in any area (such as being a lineout target, or a grafter, or high workrate, or agression, etc) to be considered a test prospect as of yet.
I can't fault the criticism of Deans with his woeful use of the bench, but really, his hands have been tied with his forwards. Sure, I would've done a few things differently - called up Baxter after Ma'afu struggled vs Fiji and then got hammered vs England, for instance, but would that have changed much? I doubt it. I think our starting pack of fully fit players can stand up at test level - but unlike teams like SA and NZ who can slip in test quality players if one goes down (NZ with McCaw excepted), we simply can't. Horwill, Palu, Alexander, Robinson are injured and are irreplacable in Aus as the next step down is indeed, a long way down. The one position we had two world class players in was hooker, and both of them got crocked. The only thing worse would've been the loss of Pocock.
Really, blooding more inexperienced players sounds great in hindsight, but just as likely could have led to (even more) humilating losses, at the slightest chance that we might have uncovered one rising star from amongst the up and comers / journeyman. I think that if we did swap in a lot of the players named and they struggled, the knives for Deans would've been even sharper.
Rubbish
Baxter should have been selected, Deans has erred, the difference between Ma'afu is immense. Ma'afu loses the hit, ends up too high and gets put on roller skates.
Baxter cynically loses the hit and collapses and often gets a re-set. When he gets it right he is packed as low as anyone in Aus and that negates the opposition's drive. The only units he has had trouble with in the last 3 years is the AB loose heads as they have the technical skill to pack as low and put on pressure.
There would still be too many penalties with Baxter, but there would not as much of an embarrassment for Aus we have had to endure over the last month.
That said whilst Daley is on the LHP no one could have done a lot, Daley simply isn't a starting test LHP, he doesn't have the scrummaging ability.
This lovefest over youthful props is just madness
Scotty
David Codey (61)
Ash,
Surely it would have been more sensible to throw the likes of Simmons or Douglas in against Fiji or Ireland rather than having them against the Boks or ABs. If there was a plan to have Simmons in the 3N squad, then he should have been at least tested off the bench in one of the June Wallaby games.
The problem with the June tests are that we haven't really found anything good, or learned anything new. Arguably Slipper and Fa'ainga are the exception to this.
We haven't see how Cooper would go with a hard running 12 outside him
We don't know how Douglas or Simmons would step up as locks
We haven't found out if Hodgson is big enough to play 6 or 8 internationally
Whether the backrow would be better balanced with Mumm or Hodgson at 6 and Elsom at 8
How a bigger backline might be more effective
Whether Hynes could show the same form for the Reds at fullback for the Wallabies
The June tests were the place to get some answers to these questions, not the trinations series. I think Deans will stick with the same team vs the Boks, and if we get beaten, he might then make some changes. Will it be fair to throw the likes of Fa'ainga in against the ABs in his maiden test?
T
TOCC
Guest
Scotty, im sure Deans would have liked to throw Simmons in during the June tests, however he was just coming back from a broken cheeckbone and was lacking in match practice and contact training, dont think throwing him in against a test nation would have been a great idea.
Reddy!
Bob Davidson (42)
For starters, I don't want to see Link become Wallabies coach YET, as he still has alot of unfinished business and progress to make with the Reds for hopefully another two seasons.
Secondly, while you say Mooney had alot to do with the way the Reds used the ball in hand, you have to give Link credit for maintaining that style of play (and making it a real weapon) whilst also making the Reds weaknesses their strengths. But the most important thing that Link changed at the Reds this year was the attitude.
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