Wallabies Number 8 for the RWC

[Garryowen]

Can't believe Higgers stats, what was he doing for an hour? Would prefer Samo to start, Higgers on the bench and McCalman probably in the squad as 6/8 cover.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Didn't Taf play eight at schoolboys level?

 

[qwerty51]

Didn't Taf play eight at schoolboys level?

LG says he played 6.

 

[Groucho]

How easy is that? If you pick him and then say 'oh, he isn't fit' and then sub him out when he is no more or less fit this week than in a fortnight, it seems that naming sides on Thursday is no obstacle to replacing any player, and open to abuse.

I doubt that the IRB will require a doctors certificate if a team withdraws a player from the tournament. If they do, then I'm sure the ARU will be able to provide one, otherwise they wouldn't be withdrawing him.

I don't see how it is abuse anyway: a team should be able select a player who they hope will be fit for the tournament. That's the case here. It's not as though we're falsely subbing out fit players, which would be abuse.

 

[Groucho]

Cutter, I've played all three positions in the back row! I think Higgers can play there, but needs to focus more on running closer to the ruck. I don't think the wide ranging game is that of a traditional 6 either. He's big enough, with good enough hands and a decent motor. I still think he's a better choice than Benny Mac at the moment.

He also needs to make more tackles than Quade.

 

[Swarley]

LG says he played 6.

Yep, played #6 in every game he played for the Aus Schoolboys in 2004.
http://austschools.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/newslet04.pdf

 

[Searsy]

I doubt that the IRB will require a doctors certificate if a team withdraws a player from the tournament. If they do, then I'm sure the ARU will be able to provide one, otherwise they wouldn't be withdrawing him.

I don't see how it is abuse anyway: a team should be able select a player who they hope will be fit for the tournament. That's the case here. It's not as though we're falsely subbing out fit players, which would be abuse.

I'm pretty sure I could find a South African Doctor that wouldn't mind writing a few sick notes.

 

[Joe Blow]

How can the selectors be thinking of picking Palu who hasn't even played club rugby let alone a test match. Macalman can play lock as well as backrow.

As can Samo, who is is much more effective at the top level in both positions. Samo should be chosen in the squad but sadly Deans will probably go for youth.
I am undecided on Palu. When he is fit and firing he is destructive and has a real presence on the field. He definitely has the X factor but has not always displayed it in test matches.

Most of the suggested 22s here have no cover for 7. This is the most taxing in the back row and Deans will have a back-up 7 on his bench for the big guns (Ire,Eng,NZ,Fra or SA). That will most likely be Hodgson as he is a very good 7 with the ability to play 6 and 8. He will also start at 7 against the minnows with Higgers or Pocock on the bench as cover.
Previously we had Mumm as a bench 6/5. Samo should fill this position (8/6/5) in my mind if Palu is starting at 8.

Experience is very important in these knock-out tournaments and Samo would be invaluable in this regard.

 

[fatprop]

Wycliff Palu runs hard for World Cup place

Iain Payten
From: The Daily Telegraph
August 16, 2011 12:00AM


WYCLIFF Palu says he would withdraw from the race for World Cup selection if he felt he was going to weaken the Wallabies' chances of winning the tournament.

But after cranking up his fitness regime while returning from a broken shoulder, Palu is confident he can quickly return to his damaging best for 80 minutes when he resumes in coming weeks.

The powerful No.8 is hoping to play for the Australian Barbarians against Canada next Friday after missing eight weeks due to a broken scapula in his right shoulder, during which time he also had "clean-up" knee surgery.

It is the latest in a series of comeback trails for Palu.

He had a knee reconstruction last year and hamstring problems caused him to miss much of this year's Super Rugby season.

Confident his luck has finally turned, the big backrower has his "fingers crossed" that he will be picked in the 30-man World Cup squad on Thursday. But he knows there will be no easing back to form."There's not really enough time for that, and I have been aware of that," Palu said.

"I have been training a lot harder so that when I get back I am ready to play 80 minutes and not 40 minutes or anything like that.

"That's pretty much the key, doing the work off the field, and I feel like I am in pretty good shape."

News of a confident Palu will help Wallabies coach Robbie Deans get some sleep on the flight back from South Africa today. Though stocked with handy No.8 options, Palu's sheer physicality and ability to punch holes through the defence - and opposing ball-runners - make him a key World Cup weapon, if fit.

Palu showed his ability to hit the ground running in his return match for the Waratahs in June after five weeks off with hamstring issues.

He and fellow injured NSW forward Tatafu Polota-Nau were fearsome in defence against the Highlanders.

Palu suffered his broken shoulder in the same match.

The 118kg backrower says he won't be gun-shy about using his shoulder to hit hard, and if he felt any anxiety he would withdraw for the good of the Wallabies.

"That's how I am going to have to play if I was going to play in the World Cup," Palu said. "If I didn't feel like I could play like that or I wasn't right, I would probably tell them I wasn't ready to go. It's such a big year and I just want to do what is best for the team and the guys."

That is imperative given the rivalry for the No.8 spot, Palu said. Scott Higginbotham, Ben McCalman and Radike Samo are all in there.

"If I want to be part of the squad, I want to be starting or in the 22," Palu said. "There are a few guys who've done well and Radike did well when he came on too, so there is a lot of competition."

Deans and the Wallabies staff will hold medical tests tomorrow for injured players before finalising their squad.

Faced with several key players not due to play until after Thursday's deadline, it's foreseeable Deans will pick the injured men and keep a shadow squad as well.

While Drew Mitchell, Polota-Nau and Palu are likely to be right,prop Benn Robinson is expected to have surgery and will be ruled out.

Palu said his spirits have been good despite feeling "like I have been in the gym since April last year."

 

[Groucho]

I am undecided on Palu. When he is fit and firing he is destructive and has a real presence on the field. He definitely has the X factor but has not always displayed it in test matches.

Really?

I think Palu is underrated.

 

[DPK]

I agree Groucho, but it's been a while since we saw him playing to his full potential.

 

[Joe Blow]

Really?

I think Palu is underrated.

I don't think so. We have all seen what he can do when he applies himself. We saw it on his last EOYT.
Most regard him as Australia's best #8.
He has had a tendancy to go missing at times in tests prior to that.

 

[Groucho]

I don't think so. We have all seen what he can do when he applies himself. We saw it on his last EOYT.
Most regard him as Australia's best #8.
He has had a tendancy to go missing at times in tests prior to that.

What I mean Joe is that he's underrated when the 'goes missing' tag is applied. He's been winning players' player points (and players' player awards over the course of a season) in the very same games that people says he goes missing. This is because many of his big hits in offence and defence are made at very close range, where we can't easily see them. But the players see them.

 

[Train Without a Station]

will most likely be Hodgson as he is a very good 7 with the ability to play 6 and 8.

Hahaha. People are saying that Higgers is a 6 not an 8 and you throw this one out mate. Matt Hodgson is a 7 that often gets played at 6 and 8 and plays the exact same game. He has the unfortunate distinction of probably being the 2nd best 7 in the country at one point in his career, but unfortunately also being the 2nd best 7 at his province. He was played at 6 and 8 due to both injuries, and also probably being the 2nd best backrower at his province behind Pocock.

By that logic Ed Quirk was a 7 for the Reds this year, because he wore the 7 jersey, even though he played like a 6.

 

[Cutter]

Cutter, I've played all three positions in the back row! I think Higgers can play there, but needs to focus more on running closer to the ruck. I don't think the wide ranging game is that of a traditional 6 either. He's big enough, with good enough hands and a decent motor. I still think he's a better choice than Benny Mac at the moment.

Okay, let's analyse this. There are two relevant questions:

1. What are the specific attributes expected from a no.8 which aren't applicable for a 6?
a. Weight in the scrum and holding the locks together.
b. Positional awareness both in where to go from a scrum, getting the running lines right in cover defence and being in position to cover for the fullback/wingers when they chase etc.
c. Being able to handle the ball at the back of the scrum both when going forward (much harder than it seems) and going backward and providing good delivery to your half.
d. Being able to make ground off the back of a scrum and get over the advantage line even when marked closely.

2. Does Higginbotham demonstrate these attributes?
a. Not that I've noticed. It may or may not be relevant that Samo was on when our scrum was more dominant. The role of the No. 8 in a strong scrum is under recognised.
b. Elsom missed Spies, but Higginbotham should have got him too. Higginbotham plays like a 6 from no.8.
c. We all noted the improved communication between Samo and Genia. Palu has demonstrated this in the past as well. Not having someone familiar and confident with feeding the ball to your half limits the moves your backline can run.
d. Higginbotham is okay with this aspect but not as strong as Samo or Palu. His strength as a runner is hitting holes from depth. He's also better playing slightly wider.

Other attributes you expect from an 8 are often more general skills which can be compensated for by having balancing elements with other backrowers. For example, being a line busting runner, hitting wider gaps, lineout proficiency, brutal defender, good support player etc.

Higginbotham might develop into an 8, but he's not one now.

 

[Gnostic]

Okay, let's analyse this. There are two relevant questions:

1. What are the specific attributes expected from a no.8 which aren't applicable for a 6?
a. Weight in the scrum and holding the locks together.
b. Positional awareness both in where to go from a scrum, getting the running lines right in cover defence and being in position to cover for the fullback/wingers when they chase etc.
c. Being able to handle the ball at the back of the scrum both when going forward (much harder than it seems) and going backward and providing good delivery to your half.
d. Being able to make ground off the back of a scrum and get over the advantage line even when marked closely.

2. Does Higginbotham demonstrate these attributes?
a. Not that I've noticed. It may or may not be relevant that Samo was on when our scrum was more dominant. The role of the No. 8 in a strong scrum is under recognised.
b. Elsom missed Spies, but Higginbotham should have got him too. Higginbotham plays like a 6 from no.8.
c. We all noted the improved communication between Samo and Genia. Palu has demonstrated this in the past as well. Not having someone familiar and confident with feeding the ball to your half limits the moves your backline can run.
d. Higginbotham is okay with this aspect but not as strong as Samo or Palu. His strength as a runner is hitting holes from depth. He's also better playing slightly wider.

Other attributes you expect from an 8 are often more general skills which can be compensated for by having balancing elements with other backrowers. For example, being a line busting runner, hitting wider gaps, lineout proficiency, brutal defender, good support player etc.

Higginbotham might develop into an 8, but he's not one now.

Agree fully, perhaps why he had very limitted time at 8 for the Reds, and why I said although I was happy to see him get a start but it should have been at 6. Elsom has played 8 and did well there, so IMO if he must be on the field (and for Cyclo's sake I will not contribute to white noise) play Higginbum in the only position he is currently suited for (let him learn 8 at Super or Club Level) and play Elsom at 8.

 

[naza]

You can't afford Elsom and Higginbotham, 2 pussycats, in the same starting side together. Unless you want to set a record for seagulling sideline runs, aimless kicks by forwards, and tackles slipped off of.

RWC Final time I want McCalman to 6, Palu to 8 and Radike off the bench. Those blokes are up for a scrap at least. Still, I can only envy the Boks with Juan Smith, the best rugby player in the world, and the ABs with the magnificent pairing of Kaino & Read.

 

[qwerty51]

naza that's exactly what I've been saying for a long time. You've practically read my mind.

 

[naza]

naza that's exactly what I've been saying for a long time. You've practically read my mind.

Clearly we are radically intelligent men, blessed with rare gifts.

Or maybe its just fucking obvious to blokes who know their footy ? We need to man up. Pocock is automatic at 7. Our #8 needs to be rawboned and physical and has to make a shitload of hard yards. Who else but Palu has that ability? That just leaves blindside flank. Your #6 needs to be your best defender. Elsom is a bloke I've long criticised. He is a poor defender (That's me being very generous). He cannot make offensive tackles. He makes the sort of tackles you expect a flyhalf to make - tackling side on, grabbing a bit of leg, getting dragged for a few yards but eventually puling the bloke down. That shit aint' good enough ! He's a leaner at the ruck, totally pissweak. On the other hand, McCalman's defence is pretty rawboned. Mac has a great workrate, doesn't shirk the tough stuff, has a knack for counter rucking and slowing down opposition pill. His only flaw is he's not freakishly dynamic athletically. So his running from #8 is nothing to write home about - fair criticism. Luckily there's a rugby home for blokes like that - they can graft away quite happily at blindside. Okay, 2nd flaw is that he's not the lineout option Elsom is.. we'll just have to suck that up.

Alternatives ? Higgers ? Are you kidding me ? A seagull who spends his time grubber kicking on the sideline is not the cure to our soft pack. We got rolled by Samoa. SAMOA ! SA-FUCKING-MOA !! Why hasn't anyone been put up against a wall and shot yet ? What a fucking travesty. I've had enough. I want blokes who crack heads not outside centre wannabes. Weak funts need not apply.

 

[Jnor]

Gold.