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Wallabies front row

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Cyril Towers (30)
thatguy, well spotted. I suppose the difference is that in my first post I was proposing what I thought should happen and in the second one I was trying to 2nd guess Deans. I think Daley has got a lot of learning to do, but I admire his pluck and there aren't any realistic LHP options in the squad. Cowan's not up to it either.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
Daley is well spoken and passionate. A true leader. He is also great around the park. Sadly, the man can't scrum.

He reminds me of Burgess, great at every facet of the game except what he is on the field to do. In Daley's case scrumming in Burgess' case passing.

NOTE: Yes, I am aware Luke had a good game this week but I will change my opinion of his passing when it becomes the norm.
 

gone

Ted Fahey (11)
thatguy, well spotted. I suppose the difference is that in my first post I was proposing what I thought should happen and in the second one I was trying to 2nd guess Deans. I think Daley has got a lot of learning to do, but I admire his pluck and there aren't any realistic LHP options in the squad. Cowan's not up to it either.

Yep, I probably agree - Daley is the best option in the squad (definitely don't want Cowan in there)... Looking at the selections for the midweek game I think the same props may be picked with TPN coming back in.

I think we may see a change in the 2nd row - Chisholm for Mumm to add a bit of grunt.
 
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saulih

Guest
Oh, and call me a bastard but given Ma'afu has 4 kids, does he have the time to put in extra hours into his training and development ?

...bastard

He needs the time away for RnR.
 
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saulih

Guest
I really disagree with starting debut props if it can be avoided. Put them on the bench and send 'em out once the sting is out of the opponents scrum. Give the kids a chance for farks sake. The stigma of being pantsed by the Poms tends to stick around for a front rowers career, hardly a great start for our future props.

Couldn't agree more...
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
The scrums got better towards the end of both halves, I think the poms got tired.

Baxter has to be in the mix, either starting or on the bench. However, is he fit and why isn't he playing for norths?

Getting the Poms tired will be a priority this week I reckon. Run them off their feet: move the point of attack from one sideline to the other at maximum pace. No kicking. Reds rugby.
 
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saulih

Guest
One can't help think that England is working overtime this week strategizing on how to demolish our scrum even more, and would be delighted if Australia picked the same front 3. I think there is going to be a certain amount of, "do we want to risk losing this series and use it as a training ground for future front 3 development ie select the same boys for another possible spanking, or do we change it up to a different and hopefully better combination."

If they pick Daley and Ma'afu it shows that they really do/did believe these boys are the best option for the RWC vers. 2011, and believe that persistence will pay off, and who cares if these boys get their arses handed to them in the meantime. It will also indicate that they view these winter tour games as development games. If they change up, they are searching, and don't have the answers yet.

We are going to see a long dark season for scrumming until this gets sorted.

Best answer I see is to work on reducing the error rate in dropped ball, and passing accurately. We know our weakness, so don't go there. Also, use the opportunities early in the game to wear down their forwards physically in pick and go. A page out of Link's book when the Reds faced the Bulls earlier this year would be one to go with. Retain possession and wear their forwards down. Level the playing field a little if you will.

IMO
 
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saulih

Guest
Getting the Poms tired will be a priority this week I reckon. Run them off their feet: move the point of attack from one sideline to the other at maximum pace. No kicking. Reds rugby.

geez you beat me to it... right when I was typing it up too.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
geez you beat me to it... right when I was typing it up too.

Well that's what was so effective in the first test wasn't it? The Poms will revert to much more kicking for firled position this time round. They missed the trick lasty week. Will try and force Australia to kick or attack from deep.

Good beer that there, especially on tap at the pub around the corner from my sister's house in Boston ;) I own mortgage on a chair there.
 
T

TheTruth

Guest
Where is Fitzpatrick in the mix - thought he was the blue eyed lad but appears maybe number 5
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
If I was Martin Johnson, and the scrums started to go the way they did on the weekend I would instruct my players to knock the ball on every time they got it. They can't make any metres with the ball in hand so they may as well pressure the Aus scrum, get the penalty, then either kick for the line or for goal.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
The Truth

Once S Finger proved himself starting this year he was always going to be no. 3. The surprise to me was that Edmonds got a jersey this year and became no.4. The time for Fitzy, who has just turned 21 and hasn't started in a Super14 game yet, and/or the other young guns should come after the RWC.

When Fitzy, Charles and Whittaker are the age that Fainga'a is now, and throw in the U20 hooker Siliva for good measure, we will see how blessed we are having so many good young hookers running around the country. A couple of those lads may drop away but the ones that emerge will be good Wallaby material.
 

Moses

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
If I was Martin Johnson, and the scrums started to go the way they did on the weekend I would instruct my players to knock the ball on every time they got it. They can't make any metres with the ball in hand so they may as well pressure the Aus scrum, get the penalty, then either kick for the line or for goal.
Isn't that what the restart which went out on the full was about? Seemed pretty effective, Wallabies scrum on halfway leads straight to England full arm on halfway, which would be kickable!
There's a gameplan for you, kick out the restart, scrum penalty, poles. Repeat until won.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
If I was Martin Johnson, and the scrums started to go the way they did on the weekend I would instruct my players to knock the ball on every time they got it. They can't make any metres with the ball in hand so they may as well pressure the Aus scrum, get the penalty, then either kick for the line or for goal.

If I was Johnson, I would be working out ways to properly leverage their dominance, not just continue the scrummaging. They could for a start pick some backs with a clue who aren't tug boats.
 

HG

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Isn't that what the restart which went out on the full was about? Seemed pretty effective, Wallabies scrum on halfway leads straight to England full arm on halfway, which would be kickable!
There's a gameplan for you, kick out the restart, scrum penalty, poles. Repeat until won.

There is an option available to Australia. A line out on half way would be the way to go.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
The Wallabies don't miss Foley at all ...


MUCH!

As I have said elsewhere, so hesitant in the repeat, IMO Deans letting Foley go back the Tahs was a huge mistake (for the Wallabies) that is still painfully evident. And it did not reflect well on Deans' coach selection capabilities or vision. It seems to me, Foley or his ilk is greatly missed now. Further, given his obvious achievements in only 4 or so months with the Reds (not superstar) forwards in 2010, if Deans was a tad more humble and a tad more strategic, he could have done a lot, lot worse than asking Link to come in as some kind of forwards consultant or maybe even full forwards coach through at least the (crucial to Deans) 2010 Tris and Bled were done.

In this context, may I note that few posters are offering up thoughts on Noriega's competencies as revealed over the relevant period (and on Saturday's display). Why is Wallabies forwards/scrum coaching infrastructure and the people there mentioned so little - do we believe selections are everything?

And if Wayne S in right in the last para of his column in The Australian today, the Wallabies forwards/scrum coaching staff has _much_ to answer for.

Thoughts?
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
RedsHappy are you suggesting we judge Noriega on one test where he had only a few rookies to choose from?

That would not be fair. Sorry but no coach in the world will magically make Daly stronger and teach him in a week to scrum better.

Neither Daley or Ma'afu are at this stage test quality. Coaching has little to do with it.
 

Lindommer

Simon Poidevin (60)
Staff member
There is an option available to Australia. A line out on half way would be the way to go.

The Aussie catcher raced up to the half way line for a quick throw-in but the ref made them take a scrum back at the centre. Did Rocky opt for a scrum? Law 13.8 states a resulting lineout must be on the half way line, did Owens err?
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
The Smith article, pretty interesting
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ix-in-second-row/story-e6frg7mf-1225879637645

Mark Chisholm could bring Wallabies a quick fix in second row

* Wayne Smith
* From: The Australian
* June 15, 2010 12:00AM
THE Wallabies front row understandably is under the spotlight leading into Saturday's second Test against England in Sydney but the fastest fix to Australia's scrum problems using existing personnel might just be a change in the second row.

Australia started the Perth Test with Nathan Sharpe packing as the right-hand second-rower behind tighthead Salesi Ma'afu, with Dean Mumm on the left-hand side behind loosehead Ben Daley.

Shoulder injuries have tended to make Sharpe a reluctant tighthead lock and he would always play on the left-hand side whenever selected in tandem with Dan Vickerman or James Horwill, both locks capable of providing solid backing to the tighthead.

Young Reds prop James Slipper earned widespread praise for his performance off the bench, initially as a replacement for Daley at loosehead. He then switched to the tighthead side once Ma'afu was sin-binned in the 68th minute for repeated scrum offences, with a barely rested Daley resuming duty on the left-hand side.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

But as stoutly as Slipper performed on debut, two things acted in his favour. The first was that virtually as Ma'afu was making his way off the ground, Bath prop David Wilson, who played tighthead against the Wallabies at Twickenham last November, was sent on to replace Tim Payne as the England loosehead.

That meant that Slipper, at tighthead, was scrummaging against a specialist tighthead playing out of position.

But perhaps more importantly, Mark Chisholm was sent on to take over from Dean Mumm in the Australian second row.

A muscular 112kg and one of the strongest players in the Wallabies squad, Chisholm immediately packed into the scrum on the right-hand side behind Slipper, with Sharpe switching to loosehead lock. Using this formation, the seven-man Australian pack twice withstood the eight-man England shove.

In Horwill's continued absence, Chisholm is the only specialist tighthead lock in the Australian Test squad and his 112kg could help to shore up the right-hand side of the scrum.

But weight alone will not solve Australia's scrummaging problems. Cameras at Subiaco Oval on Saturday night revealed that loosehead Daley and hooker Fainga'a were angling left-to-right while tighthead Ma'afu employed a right-to-left technique. That split the Australian scrum, completely diffusing what weight was coming from the back five.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
If I was Johnson, I would be working out ways to properly leverage their dominance, not just continue the scrummaging. They could for a start pick some backs with a clue who aren't tug boats.

You assume that he actually has any idea about backline play? or that he actually cares about it?

The evidence in his short coaching career so far would suggest he prefers the ball to go no further than the 10.
 
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