Wallabies front row

[Lance Free]

Well, we beat the Poms with a completely disfunctional forward pack. Core function, yes. Need to be won? The evidence last Saturday suggests otherwise.*

* This statement is possibly only true when playing England....

Yes, you're right. But it wasn't a comfortable win by any means against very average opposition.

We're talking about one experienced front rower (plus TPN - who he regularly plays with) to stabilise our scrum.

Who's to say that this week, if they actually got their backline going from their excellent scrum platform, that penalty tries and untold scrum penalties won't make the difference?

I think TPN will change the dynamic a little bit but no matter which of these squad props he brings in the result will be the same. And if we lose, it'll be on his head and he'll only have himself to blame.....

Entirely preventable.

 

[daz]

Great quote at the bottom of your posts daz.

12 year old kids don't have that filter the rest of us develop over time.....

 

[daz]

So what is the board criteria as to when "brave", becomes shit? ie

I never said they weren't shit. They were diabolical in nearly all aspects of test match forward play and you won't hear me dispute that. But I'll stand by my comment that they showed great courage.

PS: For what it's worth, I never did like Baxter or Dunning in a Gold jumper.

 

[DPK]

England are possibly the best team to give a newcomer a tough debut against. With their backline playing like they were in Perthshire/ingham/fontein last week, they were never going to beat us, but scrumtime was intense.

 

[Blue]

I'll tell you what would have been worse: for them to not go through with it. Some of you think we are a laughing stock now? Imagine if they had gone uncontested. The media (and most of us!) would have destroyed these guys more effectively than any reaming in the scrum.

They knew they were being beat, they knew it was going to hurt, they knew they were letting the team down, and still they went back into the lions den for more when they could have taken the easy way out. Fuck me, if that isn't courage I clearly don't have a handle on the English language.

There is only one person in the entire ARU setup that is fully responsible for this: RD.

How would they have "gone uncontested?" By faking injury? You seem to imply that it would be an easy decision, and one that they could have easily made. Not. Faking injury is a very risky thing. Imagine one of them did, and was found out. It would spell the end of their career and they know that. Courageous sure. But the only alternative is a very dangerous one so they really had no choice but to keep eating dirt.

 

[daz]

How would they have "gone uncontested?"

I'm not implying that they could or should have gone uncontested. Someone made the comment that it would have been more courageous to go down that path rather than keep at it, and I disputed that.

By faking injury? You seem to imply that it would be an easy decision, and one that they could have easily made. Not. Faking injury is a very risky thing.

I'm with you on the faking aspect and I do not for one second condone that. I would be massively disappointed in any player in any code who fakes an injury for advantage (i.e. Harlequins blood-gate). If I want to see lots of acting I'll watch soccer. But I tell you what, if one of those 3 guys had limped off holding a shoulder I don't think anyone would have been surprised....

 

[RedsHappy]

Yes, you're right. But it wasn't a comfortable win by any means against very average opposition.

.....

Who's to say that this week, if they actually got their backline going from their excellent scrum platform, that penalty tries and untold scrum penalties won't make the difference?

....

Entirely preventable.

LF and all: in a way, Sydney this Saturday has now assumed some fascinating dimensions not quite expected before 8pm last Saturday. (Maybe 'fascinating' should be replaced with 'highly nerve racking'.)

Deans will - surely! - be desperate to not repeat the forwards debacle again. No one could consider this was anything other than a humiliation for the Wallabies and, to a degree, for Oz rugby as a whole. (Btw, I have talked to some 'everyday' on and off fans of rugby and they were incredulous and hated the whole 'boring rugby scrum delays and refs calls' all over again.). But how, quite how, is he going to do that, and the English will surely further fine tune and improve their scrum techniques following useful enemy engagements.

If Oz reduces its handling error rate from the Canberra and Perth levels, a higher try rate per big line break ratio could well result. A positive for Oz. And if our scrum gives away say half the scrum-based penalties of Perth, we are on a roll!

For England, MJ and the team will be even more desperate, very desperate, for a win. Seen the English rugby media since Saturday? Heads on platters are being requested, and Rob Andrew is out here and, only in the middle of a recent poor 6N performance by England, there were credible calls to bring back...you guessed it...Sir Clive.... and many good sources said he was in fact ready and waiting for the call! Saturday in Sydney is thus shaping up as a genuine, super-high-pressure watershed for MJ's and the senior players' credibility (and maybe salaries).

IMO, England were on the whole somewhat worse in Perth than their average standard in the 6N and against the BaaBaas just before departing for Oz. So, it's quite credible that England's performance will lift, they are capable of more than was delivered in Perth. Then we have their horrendous 30+ missed tackles, some of which let us gain key ground or actual tries. They will almost certainly improve on that. Positives for England with just a bit of work and application and, as above, motivation by the real possibility of imminent self-destruction.

A coming Test well worth watching then, though possibly for all the wrong reasons.

LF - should you not commence a thread to tip the outcome?

 

[Chauncey]

Not even Super 14 quality?

How is it that some of these young props are supposedly good enough to start an international test for Australia yet are not even in the starting line up for their Super 14 team?
Can someone explain this to me because .........I just don't get it.
If they were so fantastic don't you think their Super 14 coach would have noticed.
Robbie must be able to see something from afar that these props own coaches cannot see from up close on a weekly basis.
A test is NOT the place to learn scrummage.
Learn it in Grade, move on to Super then if you shine in that competition you should be noticed by the national coach and selectors.

 

[Newb]

daz i'm with you. yes, they were shit and it hurt the team and better should have been expected. i'm not saying they get a pass just for the effort. but i think there is something to be said for the mental side of things as you pointed out. they did well to take that reaming in front of the crowd and on tv, and knowing that they were nearly losing the match for the rest of the team. they avoided turning into a complete jelly-like state (only partially there) and still did their work around the field. that kind of beating is the thing that can drop one's confidence so low to the point of permanent scarring. we'll see how they go in the future, but that had to have put a dent in what they thought they were capable of. i hope they can back up because there is talent there for the future and depending on how things go, we may be counting on them in the short term too.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

True, but as front rowers they signed up for scrums. To call them courageous to go through with it, what would have been the cowardly option?

As a firefighter you are signed up fight fire. To run into a burning building will still take courage, despite it being part of your job. An inexperienced and depleted scrum taking on the English front row is not your ordinary scrum, and still would have taken courage to continue taking that beating. Anyone that has actually played rugby and been in a similar situation will empathise.
Does there need to be a cowardly option for something to be recognised? I suppose they could have opted to take uncontested scrums when Ma'afu was binned, or thrown in the towel and have been completely penalised/carded out of the game (more so than they already were).
I'm not trying to say they did well, should be retained or any of the other debate going around, I'm just saying that they had a tough ask and I give them credit for sticking at it.

 

[DPK]

As a firefighter you are signed up fight fire. To run into a burning building will still take courage, despite it being part of your job. An inexperienced and depleted scrum taking on the English front row is not your ordinary scrum, and still would have taken courage to continue taking that beating. Anyone that has actually played rugby and been in a similar situation will empathise.
Does there need to be a cowardly option for something to be recognised? I suppose they could have opted to take uncontested scrums when Ma'afu was binned, or thrown in the towel and have been completely penalised/carded out of the game (more so than they already were).
I'm not trying to say they did well, should be retained or any of the other debate going around, I'm just saying that they had a tough ask and I give them credit for sticking at it.

All the props I know live for the big games, and love nothing better than packing down.

I daresay the Aus props were keen to get on the park and take on the English pack. Sure, they may have felt shite after, but if Deans et al aren't picking blokes who love to be a prop, then they're not picking the right blokes.

 

[TOCC]

jeez... you guys really need to have a look at what you are arguing over.. semantics!!

lets get back to the conversation at hand

 

[Blue]

jeez... you guys really need to have a look at what you are arguing over.. semantics!!

lets get back to the conversation at hand

Righto.

There's no glory in getting mullered.

 

[daz]

jeez... you guys really need to have a look at what you are arguing over.. semantics!!

lets get back to the conversation at hand

Hells donkey's, I went off topic so long ago I have no idea what the actual conversation is....

Someone want to start again?

 

[#1 Tah]

Hells donkey's, I went off topic so long ago I have no idea what the actual conversation is....

Someone want to start again?

Robinson, Mooore, Alexander, Kepu all injured.

What the Fuck do we do now???

thats the jist of it.

 

[daz]

Robinson, Mooore, Alexander, Kepu all injured.

What the Fuck do we do now???

thats the jist of it.

Well, that seems simple. Glad we got that sorted out.

Guess I'll wander back to the index and pick another thread to highjack completely off-topic.

 

[TOCC]

i would like to see Baxter brought back in

 

[daz]

i would like to see Baxter brought back in

How fitting. I get to use my 100th post to tell you that the 100+ capped S14 Prop is never going to wear Gold again.

 

[matty_k]

I can see it happening if everyone else gets injured.

 

[Nevawaz]

I think there is a need to re-instate both Baxter and Dunning somewhere in the mix. You will remember they both got towelled up a few years back by Sheridan etc which was a turning point for both of them. They both came back considerably bigger & stronger and went from laughing stocks to quite handy international front rowers. The world cup is going to be here too quickly for these young blokes to develop enough physically to compete with the pommy axes who are all about 30 or so and very battle hardened with their longer seasons etc We risk another World Cup going to the dogs unless we can come up with blokes that can physically match the other packs. I think even a superior scrummager like Robinson might have struggled Saturday night - a good big man will generally beat a good small man might be the case