Groucho
Greg Davis (50)
Horne was the most penetrative centre in the S14. And I'm a Brumbies fan.
Wallabies 9-15 20-22
- Thread starter disco
- Start date
- Status
Horne was the most penetrative centre in the S14. And I'm a Brumbies fan.
wow. Just wow.
Looking at stats at least, the answer is Morgan Turinui
1 line break every 3.2 runs
then Inman with a line break every 5 runs
then Tyrone Smith with one every 5.73 runs
Ant Faigaa was at 6.57
Then Horen and Diggers on 6.67
Then Chambers on 6.75
then the rest.
Jnor
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Screw Cross, put Tom Carter at 13 with Horne @ 12 - his distributions pretty good, isn't it?
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
Beale yes, Mitchell and Ioane no
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
If someone like Horne, Chamber, Mortlock etc were to play at outside centre then I would also have AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as a winger over Mitchell with Ioane on the other wing...
Beale is improving, but we need one player in the back 3 that can catch a high ball under pressure and he's too good of a player to leave out of the starting XV...
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Yep.
I think Reg is completely ignoring Horne's excellent form for the Tahs this year... Chambers was nowhere near as impressive...
Reds fans are simply gushing because for a rookie convert he played well...
At the end of the Super 14 I believed that Chambers wasn't good enough for a Wallaby 30 man squad... and I don't see him making the RWC without a stellar season next year...
Bruce Ross
Ken Catchpole (46)
Jnor, they would be much better in the reverse order. Carter will have a very big season in 2011. Notwithstanding all the ridicule he is the only genuine big 12 we have in Australia.
Jnor
Peter Fenwicke (45)
I agree they're better in that order but this was more to fit in with the earlier suggestion that Horne should be given a run at 12. If you're going to try mucking with the line-up then keeping the personnel the same might be a start...
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
I am a long way from thinking TC should start with the Wobblies, but I do agree with Bruce re TC being the only genuine 12 we have.
I think if you play QC (Quade Cooper), then you play a big 12,as QC (Quade Cooper) plays at the line.so the 12 cannot play that 2nd 5 style we are expecting Gits & BB to play.
IF you play QC (Quade Cooper) that is............
Ruggo
Mark Ella (57)
Chambers will shit all over AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as an OC. The big point of difference is that he has a distributing game. I love AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) but not as an OC. He will compliment Chambers well on the outside of him. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Digby to be our wingers. Beale and Cooper as the X factor players, Barnes at 12 as our steadying player and the others as big powerful players that are also capable of being dominant in defence. That will get the balance right in the Wallaby backline.
Horne struggled for the Wallabies to get any ball, but then so did AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).
Most Penetrative? nah, bloody good though, but what he also is a wonderfully aggressive defender, which is something we have lacked on the back end of the test series IMHO.
Better than Chambers? dunno
Better the AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)? dunno,
Chambers is bloody good and has had far greater physical development than Horne with his time in pro rugby with the Storm giving him a serious physical background and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a damn fine footballer as well. Plus we have the smokey of Inman and the the great Mortlock.
It is one of the places we actually have some decent depth
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
Horne needs to fight his way back from injury again. If history is any guide then the poor lad will take a while to get back to top form after his latest injury.
We'll see about Chambers. Chambers went very well for the Reds in the second half of the Super 14, but he needs to back it up with a second strong Super season. We've seen plenty of players really struggle in their second season, so it definitely won't be a walk in the park for him. Same goes for Inman. Remeber Horne's second season? I bet most don't - because he completely stank for about 1/3 of the Super season, before getting injured and disappearing for the rest.
We'll see about Chambers. Chambers went very well for the Reds in the second half of the Super 14, but he needs to back it up with a second strong Super season. We've seen plenty of players really struggle in their second season, so it definitely won't be a walk in the park for him. Same goes for Inman. Remeber Horne's second season? I bet most don't - because he completely stank for about 1/3 of the Super season, before getting injured and disappearing for the rest.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
9. Genia --- more consistent then burgess, generally choices the right option.
10. Cooper --- Will be responsible for all the playmaking, only thing missing is defence
11. Ioane --- hard strong runner, deadly line-breaker (1st choice winger imo)
12. Horne/Chambers --- Good distributors/offloaders which is needed at 12, Good defenders strong runners
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) --- Most consistent back and deserve his spot, Runs good lines at 13, doesnt have the distribution skills for 12, defends well.
14. Mitchell --- Still think he's way more lethal in attack then Turner seems to always barge off a few defenders and his defence has improved
15. Beale --- In form fullback and back this year, Does freakish plays, was worried about his defence and work under the high ball but he has gotten better too.
20.Burgess --- Definitley still in the top 2 Aus number 9's
21.Giteau --- Covers 10.12. Believe he offers more then Barnes, Even being out of form.
22.JOC (James O'Connor) --- Can cover the back 3, will offer some spark off the bench.
I really dont see any weakness in my backline apart from Coopers defence, The only thing that needs to be improved is a 85% goalkicker. Kicker will be who ever out of Coops or Beale are kicking better.
10. Cooper --- Will be responsible for all the playmaking, only thing missing is defence
11. Ioane --- hard strong runner, deadly line-breaker (1st choice winger imo)
12. Horne/Chambers --- Good distributors/offloaders which is needed at 12, Good defenders strong runners
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) --- Most consistent back and deserve his spot, Runs good lines at 13, doesnt have the distribution skills for 12, defends well.
14. Mitchell --- Still think he's way more lethal in attack then Turner seems to always barge off a few defenders and his defence has improved
15. Beale --- In form fullback and back this year, Does freakish plays, was worried about his defence and work under the high ball but he has gotten better too.
20.Burgess --- Definitley still in the top 2 Aus number 9's
21.Giteau --- Covers 10.12. Believe he offers more then Barnes, Even being out of form.
22.JOC (James O'Connor) --- Can cover the back 3, will offer some spark off the bench.
I really dont see any weakness in my backline apart from Coopers defence, The only thing that needs to be improved is a 85% goalkicker. Kicker will be who ever out of Coops or Beale are kicking better.
Torn Hammy
Johnnie Wallace (23)
9. Genia
10. Beale
11. JO'C
12. Carter
13. Inman
14. Ioane
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Cooper is majic but not just yet. Beale with his recent extra speed could be devastating at 10. Bruce is right about Carter being the only genuine modern day 12, sadly.
I like this lineup because 9, 10, and 12 will take on the opposition and not be intimidated by a robust defence which slows down or stops the opposition slide defence which will in turn give the speedsters at 13, 11, 14 and 15 more room to attack.
WTF is Turinui doing in France- he would be fantastic coming on late in the game with these guys.
10. Beale
11. JO'C
12. Carter
13. Inman
14. Ioane
15. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Cooper is majic but not just yet. Beale with his recent extra speed could be devastating at 10. Bruce is right about Carter being the only genuine modern day 12, sadly.
I like this lineup because 9, 10, and 12 will take on the opposition and not be intimidated by a robust defence which slows down or stops the opposition slide defence which will in turn give the speedsters at 13, 11, 14 and 15 more room to attack.
WTF is Turinui doing in France- he would be fantastic coming on late in the game with these guys.
L
Linus
Guest
Look, I'm a long time stalker on these pages and an infrequent poster. But I get sick of the need for big, I prefer smart, and most of the guys I would consider smart, don't have much experience hence the reason one week the backline looks a million dollars and then the next 2 weeks can't get anything going, as international teams quickly learn to counter your strengths. (Examples, are Beale, JOC (James O'Connor)) QC (Quade Cooper) is creative and can beat a man with a run, or a pass, but not smart IMHO.
The same goes in the defensive line, Barnes is clearly the best defender we have and I don't care if it's Nonu or SBW you limit their options by running up and putting them on the ground and allow Pocock the ability to steal alot as the 2nd defender on the ball.
To me to select the team I'm choosing the 12 best players then trying to find the right balance. The overall balance of the backline is the key here, ie how many ball players do you want, who are the kickers, what type of game to you want to play? You only need big backline to counter on obvious defensive mismatch and when your pack cannot get any go forward. If you are playing direct you need runners, but if you are trying to run around a big pack you can't do that by getting over the advantage line 10 steps from the last ruck. It needs to be at least 2 passes from the ruck, or one QC (Quade Cooper) cut out.
Right now we haven't decided on the way we want to play. NZ know and do it, by the time the WC rolls around every team will have a plan to counter this. the question is do they have Plan B. Our issue is we have plans A, B C, D, E and F and don't know which one to execute. So QC (Quade Cooper) is running plan A, Barnes is plan B, whoever is a 13 just isn't involved. I hope that we have Plan A worked out soon.
The best 12 players in no particular order Burgess,Genia, QC (Quade Cooper), Barnes, Giteau, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Mitchell, Ioane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Turner, Horne. Naturally this may change after next year's S15.
Runners in Order of strength
Ioane, QC (Quade Cooper), Beale, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Burgess, Genia, Giteau, Horne, Turner, Barnes
Passing (when they pass more than how they pass)
QC (Quade Cooper), Genia, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Barnes, Horne, Burgess, Turner, Giteau, Ioane, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (or as I like to think the black hole, I'm genuinely surprised when he passes to a teammate in a better position).
Defensively
Barnes, Burgess, Genia, Turner, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Giteau, Ioane, Beale, Mitchell, JOC (James O'Connor),.....daylight QC (Quade Cooper)
Kicking (when and how)
Barnes, Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Giteau, JOC (James O'Connor), Turner, Mitchell, Genia, Burgess, QC (Quade Cooper), Ioane, Horne.
The same goes in the defensive line, Barnes is clearly the best defender we have and I don't care if it's Nonu or SBW you limit their options by running up and putting them on the ground and allow Pocock the ability to steal alot as the 2nd defender on the ball.
To me to select the team I'm choosing the 12 best players then trying to find the right balance. The overall balance of the backline is the key here, ie how many ball players do you want, who are the kickers, what type of game to you want to play? You only need big backline to counter on obvious defensive mismatch and when your pack cannot get any go forward. If you are playing direct you need runners, but if you are trying to run around a big pack you can't do that by getting over the advantage line 10 steps from the last ruck. It needs to be at least 2 passes from the ruck, or one QC (Quade Cooper) cut out.
Right now we haven't decided on the way we want to play. NZ know and do it, by the time the WC rolls around every team will have a plan to counter this. the question is do they have Plan B. Our issue is we have plans A, B C, D, E and F and don't know which one to execute. So QC (Quade Cooper) is running plan A, Barnes is plan B, whoever is a 13 just isn't involved. I hope that we have Plan A worked out soon.
The best 12 players in no particular order Burgess,Genia, QC (Quade Cooper), Barnes, Giteau, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Mitchell, Ioane, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Turner, Horne. Naturally this may change after next year's S15.
Runners in Order of strength
Ioane, QC (Quade Cooper), Beale, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Burgess, Genia, Giteau, Horne, Turner, Barnes
Passing (when they pass more than how they pass)
QC (Quade Cooper), Genia, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Barnes, Horne, Burgess, Turner, Giteau, Ioane, Mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (or as I like to think the black hole, I'm genuinely surprised when he passes to a teammate in a better position).
Defensively
Barnes, Burgess, Genia, Turner, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Giteau, Ioane, Beale, Mitchell, JOC (James O'Connor),.....daylight QC (Quade Cooper)
Kicking (when and how)
Barnes, Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Giteau, JOC (James O'Connor), Turner, Mitchell, Genia, Burgess, QC (Quade Cooper), Ioane, Horne.
- Status