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Wallabies 31 Man Squad

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USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Chicken and egg stuff to me, was it all "Preistland" or was it partly the Wobs tactics. The suffocating approach gave him few opportunities. We can't continually blame the coach for all failures and negate his influence over the wins as well.

He was dropping the ball well behind the gain line with nobody near him and throwing passes like he was drunk. Were we playing Darth Vader in the back field somewhere?

We may have pressured them but Priestland's performance was largely of his own doing.
 

lewisr

Bill McLean (32)
If it is winning "crap", I will not mind at all.


Well then you don't care much for the Growth of the game in Australia.
To win is one thing, to promote and expand a support base requires a bit of risk and extra effort.

RE Genia, we know he can provide extremely quick service to his 10. Just depends on the game plan they are going with. But I do suspect that there are games where his judgement is off and he holds it up when he should just get the ball out of there. Seen it a bit this year with the reds.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
If it is winning "crap", I will not mind at all.

You said quite oten over the past few years the same things with regard to the Tahs FP, as the crowds dropped away and they failed time and again when the chips were really down to seal a make or break game, and when they had the "off day" and got humiliated.

In this as in the risk averse game system of Deans, the Wallabies are mirroring the Tahs. If they continue with this I fear for the future of the game. The ARU is not healthy financially and cannot cope with a further eroding of the fan base.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
He was dropping the ball well behind the gain line with nobody near him and throwing passes like he was drunk. Were we playing Darth Vader in the back field somewhere?

We may have pressured them but Priestland's performance was largely of his own doing.

But why was he standing so deep behind the gain line? Yes he made multiple handling errors but what I recall is that OZ played very good and their pattern was similar to the tactics they employed on the ABs when they hit the line hard and took space away from our backs, particularly Nonu at Suncorp in 2011.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
ACT Crusader

I'm rewatching the series right now but as I recall a #10 made multiple handling errors, his nerves broke and he retreated into the pocket. Not exactly something new there.
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
As a halfback it can be hard to manage the team sometimes, there are really three scenarios I can see where I've had to slow the game down before and I've seen Genia do it in all three scenarios as well.

1) The piggies are losing their shape and you have a secure ruck where you can reset the structures

2) The 10 is calling players into positions you don't agree with and as the man with you the ball you more or less overrule his calling (this actually happened a few times between Barnes/Genia in the Wales series)

3) You're making a mistake

Overall the decision comes down to choosing between pressing forward with the quick ball and risking losing shape and potentially ending up with an isolated runner etc, versus deliberately slowing the attack down and resetting the shape of the attack. It's an incredibly difficult decision to make as you generally have 1 phase or less worth of time to make it, and you also have to be thinking several phases ahead as the potential outcome down the road is what you are basing your decision on. It's basically the same as scanning the play from 10 and thinking ahead a few phases except you have far less time to scan and make a decision.

It is beneficial at times to slow the game down, bring the forwards in tight for a phase or two and then picking up the tempo at the first clean ruck to create some space on the fringes.


The fact of the matter is that quick ball relies on the entire team working in unison (support runners close and cleaning out quickly and effectively, the halfback being present as soon as the ball comes out, and the attacking players being aligned and ready to go in time) and as a result is very difficult to pull off for more than a few phases in succession. It's simply necessary to slow down the play sometimes or your risk:reward ratio will start to tip out of your favor.
 

churchills cigar

Peter Burge (5)
Robinson
Moore
Kepu
Horwill
Douglas
Mowen
Hooper
Palu
Genia
JOC (James O'Connor)
Leliifano
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
Ioani (Moraghan if Ioani unfit)
Folau
Barnes

That is your run on team
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
You said quite oten over the past few years the same things with regard to the Tahs FP, as the crowds dropped away and they failed time and again when the chips were really down to seal a make or break game, and when they had the "off day" and got humiliated.

In this as in the risk averse game system of Deans, the Wallabies are mirroring the Tahs. If they continue with this I fear for the future of the game. The ARU is not healthy financially and cannot cope with a further eroding of the fan base.

I disagree with the basic premise that the Wobs are/were mirroring the "Foley" Tahs

As for "winning ugly", it is how the ABs have beaten us in many games over the last few years. We have been close or coming back, and they have flipped the switch and started keeping it in the forwards with tight driving play; and won the game.

Not once have I heard the Kiwi supporters complain, or the that crowds were being affected because they won the game "ugly".

Or when the Reds play pick and drives endlessly for a match while kicking for field position, as the usually do against sides like the Chiefs, nary a complaint

As far as I care, if the Wobs need to reduce errors and frustrate the Lions to get the win I will be happy.

Winning is the key in the end, you don't get extra points for a try with artistic merit.
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
This argument runs older than this forum, but I don't think it's the gameplan or just winning that people care about - it's the execution.

If our set piece was awesome, we pick and drove like animals and had a fantastic structured contestable kick chase, you could watch that and be proud. It would also create points and tries. See the Brumbies 2012-13

If you've got none of that but just a one out runner into midfield, that's when viewers and fans give up
 

USARugger

John Thornett (49)
Gagger

Pretty much.

Say what you want about the Reds and the way they play the Chiefs but they played with a distinct intent and purpose. They also scored 5 tries in 2012 and 4 in 2013. Wallabies haven't scored 4+ tries on a Tier 1 nation (not including Italy) since July 23, 2011.

There has been a lot of chicken-with-its-head-cut-off shit going on since then which is where a lot of the frustration which myself and a lot of this board holds comes from. The fact that we can't score for shit just exacerbates this issue.
 

suckerforred

Chilla Wilson (44)
Why didn't Deans call in Mitchell? He's better than Cummins and Morahan and a proven fullback as well as wing.

Unfortunatly Drew is one ankle injury away from not walking again and one hamstring injury away from not playing again.

Love the boy dearly but I am starting to think that we will never see anything but glimses of his best again.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
You said quite oten over the past few years the same things with regard to the Tahs FP, as the crowds dropped away and they failed time and again when the chips were really down to seal a make or break game, and when they had the "off day" and got humiliated.

In this as in the risk averse game system of Deans, the Wallabies are mirroring the Tahs. If they continue with this I fear for the future of the game. The ARU is not healthy financially and cannot cope with a further eroding of the fan base.

I'd say the biggest issue is the fact it is so often translating into 'losing crap'. 'Winning crap' is one thing... but are we even actually doing that?
 

scaraby

Ron Walden (29)
Anyone have the technicals on this "new" defensive pattern the Tahs were playing Sat night.
Umbrella ish and happy to leave 3 on 1 mark ups outside with sweepers apparently covering insides.
Unfortunately all Tahs seemed to do was all cover the insides quite often 2 on 1 with the wings not trusting the sweepers and coming in... must have happened 5 times. Is this a preconceived new idea or just bad coverage /calling from the 13s and wings. If its some new plan I hope the Wobs leave it in the book Sat night.
 

Ignoto

Peter Sullivan (51)
Not once have I heard the Kiwi supporters complain, or the that crowds were being affected because they won the game "ugly".

The thing is, the All Blacks are that good that they can adapt their game plan week in week out to suit the opposition, weather and "what's in front of them". So one week they'll play the more conservative game plan you eluded to, but the next week they'll play an expansive 30-0 drubbing of the Semi-Finalists of the World Cup.

However, under Deans, we, the Australian public are lucky to see back to back wins. Supporters aren't complaining about winning ugly, they're concerned about winning in general. The fact that our home record under Deans (losing to Scotland, Samoa, England etc) is abymsal is just another factor of why people are turning away from the game.

What irks me in particular with this style of rugby is, it's not smart or good rugby. We don't play to our strengths and we don't adapt or change to surprise the opposition.
 
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