Wallabies 2024

[Brumby Runner]

BH, I didn't say that box kick was the reason for the turn around, I said it marked the timing of it. As you say, there were other reasons that the try was scored, but it stemmed from that particular kick at that particular time. I accept that you can't remember a contestable box kick from inside the 22m, but I can remember countless occasions when it happens. I also remain of the view that a kick from inside the 22m should absolutely be contestable or be finding touch as far down field as the kicker is able.

I have a general criticism of Jake Gordon's box kicks in that they are rarely contestable in the same fashion as (say) Nic White's or Ryan Lonergan's are. He does not have their skillset in that department. I am not advocating for White to come back into the team, but I do think Lonergan has a lot to offer at this level. He is more in the mold of a team player with about the best passing game of any Aussie No 9s, as well as being one of the best with his box kicking and a very accomplished goal kicker. I would like to see Ryan come into the squad for Nic right now.

The fact that no Wallaby contested the Puma's kick is inexcusable, but not in any way salient to the quality of the Gordon kick, nor the timing of it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sorry, I vehemently disagree with you. The clearing kick from inside our 22 was caught on the full on the touchline 10m inside the Pumas half. It was surely one of our longest clearing kicks of the day. He kicked it as far as he could.

If anyone else wants to chip in here to help identify some times when us or any other team kicks intentionally contestable kicks from inside their 22 then I would love to see some.

The overwhelming majority of contestable box kicks happen within 15m of halfway.

 

[Strewthcobber]

If anyone else wants to chip in here to help identify some times when us or any other team kicks intentionally contestable kicks from inside their 22 then I would love to see some.

Does Paisami's cross field kick straight to Mapimpi count?

 

[Braveheart81]

Does Paisami's cross field kick straight to Mapimpi count?

Yeah, no. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the kick pass is just meant to go to your player and not be contested.

 

[Slim 293]

Yeah, no. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the kick pass is just meant to go to your player and not be contested.

To be fair, it wasn't contested...

 

[Slim 293]

On the topic of poor box kicking...

One of Tate McDermott's ongoing issues is that he often fails to marshal his forwards for protection, and too often leaves himself prone to being charged down as did happen again on the weekend.

 

[Strewthcobber]

On the topic of poor box kicking...

One of Tate McDermott's ongoing issues is that he often fails to marshal his forwards for protection, and too often leaves himself prone to being charged down as did happen again on the weekend.

I think we also saw why box kicing is so popular too, when Donaldson had to rush his clearing kick after being passed the ball with little protection and he shanked it almost directly in line with the ruck within the 22m.

Every coach in World Rugby would take an "poor" overkicked and uncontested box-kick on the sideline 60m from your tryline v the risk of conceding a lineout throw on your own 15m line from a traditional clearance.

 

[LevitatingSocks]

I think we also saw why box kicing is so popular too, when Donaldson had to rush his clearing kick after being passed the ball with little protection and he shanked it almost directly in line with the ruck within the 22m.

Every coach in World Rugby would take an "poor" overkicked and uncontested box-kick on the sideline 60m from your tryline v the risk of conceding a lineout throw on your own 15m line from a traditional clearance.

Would honestly love to see the data on expected field position immediately following a box kick by the 9 vs a clearance by the 10 that takes into account error rates and penalties.

I suspect it would line up with your hunch, especially in international test rugby where the margins are tighter.

Taking the thought a bit further, if ceding playmaking to the 9 is the "ideal" way to play currently then that makes the loss of a suitable 10 for that half pairing in Carter Gordon with his size, willingness to run at the line, and tackling much more acutely felt.

 

[Joe Blow]

Sorry, I vehemently disagree with you. The clearing kick from inside our 22 was caught on the full on the touchline 10m inside the Pumas half. It was surely one of our longest clearing kicks of the day. He kicked it as far as he could.

If anyone else wants to chip in here to help identify some times when us or any other team kicks intentionally contestable kicks from inside their 22 then I would love to see some.

The overwhelming majority of contestable box kicks happen within 15m of halfway.

Daugunus try against Wales? It was a chip kick from Kellaway. Agree that its not advisable against top teams these days.

 

[Braveheart81]

Daugunus try against Wales? It was a chip kick from Kellaway. Agree that its not advisable against top teams these days.

He's not kicking for it to be contestable which was the crux of the discussion. He's kicking it because he sees space there and thinks we can get the ball back. Obviously it worked but likewise a very risky play.

 

[Slim 293]

A couple of ex-players dishing out some hot takes...

Former Wallaby Nick Phipps added: “It’s not just the Will Skeltons, it’s the Matt Philips. He could be in your 23. There’s Matt Philip, Richie Arnold, Rory Arnold. I wouldn’t say they’re better than [Carlo] Tizzano and [Harry] Wilson, but the competition there, you’ve got four strong options to pick from. If one’s out of form, you’ve got three [more] strong options.”

Without listing all the overseas candidates, Hoiles said others, including Sean McMahon who hasn’t played in more than a year because of an injury, should be considered.

“Hand on heart, I reckon Liam Gill and Sean McMahon are still good enough to play for the Wallabies,” the former loose forward said.

“Just because they’re in Japan, they’re sight unseen. (Carlo) Tizzano’s been really good. But when you lose (Fraser) McReight – where’s our next three or four?”

He added: “Sean McMahon’s playing at the same level as (Springboks star) Kwagga (Smith), but we don’t even get a chance to look at Sean McMahon.”

Wasn't it mentioned recently that McMahon hasn't played in over two years?

https://www.theroar.com.au/2024/09/10/massive-argument-ex-wallabies-call-on-schmidt-to-open-can-of-worms-and-pick-overseas-players-after-record-loss/

 

[Wilson]

Hoiles really nailed it with these lines:

“Just because they’re in Japan, they’re sight unseen. (Carlo) Tizzano’s been really good. But when you lose (Fraser) McReight – where’s our next three or four?”

He added: “Sean McMahon’s playing at the same level as (Springboks star) Kwagga (Smith), but we don’t even get a chance to look at Sean McMahon.”

We should also be picking Pocock, who's clearly still a capable representative at the highest level. I haven't seen him put a foot wrong on the rugby field in years.

 

[hawko07]

Hoiles really nailed it with these lines:


We should also be picking Pocock, who's clearly still a capable representative at the highest level. I haven't seen him put a foot wrong on the rugby field in years.

Ridiculous statements for Hoiles and Phipps. I laughed at your comment and agree with the sentiment. BUT to be fair I'd actually back Pocock to get out on the field and still go well. If there's any ex-player / has-been that could do it, it'd be Pocock

 

[Braveheart81]

It would obviously be great to be able to get a look at Skelton, Philip, and the Arnolds to see how they're going but likewise we don't suddenly start being able to select 50 player squads because we want to compare the overseas guys with the local guys.

 

[Dctarget]

We can be sassy about McMahon not playing for two years but he is about to start a season of professional rugby and when fit he's guaranteed to be a squad member. But the point remains we have no depth in Aus and we have good players overseas, we can't afford to be picky.

Yes, maybe even with all our OS picks we won't be world beaters. But we'd be better than what we are now. We need to implement a better system of selection/contracting so players are available.

 

[Derpus]

We can be sassy about McMahon not playing for two years but he is about to start a season of professional rugby and when fit he's guaranteed to be a squad member. But the point remains we have no depth in Aus and we have good players overseas, we can't afford to be picky.

Yes, maybe even with all our OS picks we won't be world beaters. But we'd be better than what we are now. We need to implement a better system of selection/contracting so players are available.

I agree. We should figure out how to leverage the Japanese competition because using players from Europe seems far too logistically challenging save for WCs and tours.

 

[drewprint]

I wonder if Gill and McMahon would even want to play for the Wallabies anymore.

 

[rugbyAU]

I wonder if Gill and McMahon would even want to play for the Wallabies anymore.

No they wouldn’t but McReight is a better pick at 7 anyway I’d be having Pete Samu in the squad he’s a better option at 20 than Gleeson imo

 

[Braveheart81]

No they wouldn’t but McReight is a better pick at 7 anyway I’d be having Pete Samu in the squad he’s a better option at 20 than Gleeson imo

The 32 year old Pete Samu who currently isn't in his team's top side?

 

[rugbyAU]

The 32 year old Pete Samu who currently isn't in his team's top side?

Yes