Wallabies 2023

[Joe Blow]

Its a tough gig, no question.

 

[Slim 293]

He had a highly rated team of coaches around him? Everyone was lauding his choices of assistant coaches.

Yep, it would be pure revisionism to question the credentials of the assistants he's had in place.

 

[Namerican]

I don't think you can blame Rennie too much for Italy given the ridiculous volume of injuries and number of test matches they had in short succession. The same people would be moaning about young players not getting enough game time in test matches. You can't have it both ways. And then against Wales some of those same players contributed to a massive come from behind victory. If Australia had better depth they wouldn't have lost to Italy. If you slot in veteran guys that are overseas even rather than 22 year old rookies they win that game easily (Adam Coleman, McMahon, Koriobete, Morohan).

The Wallabies success rate hasn't been great, but the Wallabies players have been poorer than in the 90's/2000's by a huge margin. At present they don't have a 10 or 15 that would even be in the top 10 players considered for England/New Zealand/South Africa at their position. Those are critical positions on a rugby pitch. You could probably say the same about #2, also a critical position.

Could Scott Robertson or Eddie Jones conjure more out of this array of players? Perhaps, but not by a huge margin. I don't think Noah Lolesio is going to turn into Finn Russell or Jock Campbell is going to look like Beauden Barrett. The Crusaders and England have done well under their coaching, but they have been absolutely stacked with talent. Robertson, for super rugby, has had Mounga, Taylor, Whitelock, Jordan, Havili, Reece, Brower, Barrett, Blackadder, Goodhue. England had Itoje, Lawes, Ford, Farrell, Marler, Daly, Tuilagi, Vunipola x 2, Brown, Genge, Sinkler, George, all in the absolute prime of their careers. That's an absolute embarrassment of riches and the coaches deserve credit for maximizing their potential, but their potential is also a whole lot higher than the Western Force or 2021 Australia. Australia would probably be starting Cipriani right now, meanwhile he's probably the 10th choice in England.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Good info, thanks guys. Who else would be in consideration for the AB gig post fozzie?

Leon Macdonald or Jamie Joseph.

 

[Dan54]

Leon Macdonald or Jamie Joseph.

Especially Joseph!!(I hope)

 

[Adam84]

I don't think you can blame Rennie too much for Italy given the ridiculous volume of injuries and number of test matches they had in short succession.

Nah, He selected the team, he owns the result.
Plenty of unforced changes made unrelated to injury

 

[wamberal]

Have the Eddie boosters forgotten how he farked the Reds up???

 

[stillmissit]

Because there's a link between CTE and suicide/suicide ideation.

Vickerman and Tune (I didn't follow Sean's career closely enough to comment) both had major concussions during their careers. Hell, more recently Paul Green killed himself and during his career he was known for playing on after being knocked out.

That's why there is an emphasis on reducing the harm these players suffer from a mental side. We even saw it last year with the Wallabies pulling players out mid week because of suffering mild symptoms.

Brain damage has its issues and I know about that having been accidentally kicked in the temple and going temporally blind, I played on but don't remember any of it. I had several concussions during my 11 playing years and have never had a single suicide thought or depression in my life. I do get migraines but without the headaches from the stray kick.
I do know a bit about one of the guys you refer to and I have heard various ideas/theories about it but the bottom line is nobody is sure, regardless, it was unlikely to be associated with rugby injuries.
Until there is a large body of knowledge regarding this issue I will not subscribe to it, there are many things that bring about suicide.
Brain damage is real, associated suicide is a theory, not a fact.

 

[stillmissit]

I dunno - you could argue he’s better head coach at international level than Razor on any metric you want to throw up. Despite his last 2 yrs he still ends comfortably the best England coach. But he’s a coach (like many) who has a set shelf life in any given gig and he appears to have passed it in the England role. It should also be noted that he is a coach who has shown he has capacity to learn from his mistakes. The strength of his demand internationally also suggests he is considered by plenty to still have plenty to offer.

Whether he is the best option for Australia at this time is a very different question.

TSR, If I attempt to put to one side his efforts in Australia. One of the problems with Eddie is the revolving door of assistants. I read about 6 months ago that the average lifespan for an Eddie asst. was 4 months. In Roger Gould's case, it was 4 weeks.
Here's a quote by him:
"Working as an assistant to Eddie, you were always having to defend your position. You would put everything on the table and have to convince him that you were right.
"When he put something on the table, you’d have to convince him he was wrong. Trouble was, that never happened.
"He has bad managerial skills. I couldn’t believe the way he talked to people in front of other people. You can’t take away their dignity."

Tales From Eddie Jones' Australia Days Will Not Please England Boss | Balls.ie

In an explosive new book looking at his pre-England days, Eddie Jones' old coaches reveal what he is like to work with in close quarters.

www.balls.ie

Is Eddie the answer? I say no thanks.

 

[Adam84]

Brain damage is real, associated suicide is a theory, not a fact.

This is incorrect, there is a statistical correlation between Traumatic Brain Injury(TBI) and suicide, more to the point those diagnosed with TBI are more likely to commit suicide.

What was been discussed here was CTE; this is not the same as TBI; although someone with CTE could also have TBI and vice versa.

As it stands there is no validated clinical criteria for CTE whilst living, which means it cannot be accurately diagnosed in a living person. Hence why an increasing number of athletes are now donating their brains for research because CTE can only be diagnosed post-mortem currently.

What is known is there is a link between CTE and cognitive impairment, there is also a subsequent link between cognitive impairment and suicidal ideation. What makes any study into CTE difficult is the inability to diagnose a living person, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or we should ignore it.

 

[stillmissit]

This is incorrect, there is a statistical correlation between Traumatic Brain Injury(TBI) and suicide, more to the point those diagnosed with TBI are more likely to commit suicide.

What was been discussed here was CTE; this is not the same as TBI; although someone with CTE could also have TBI and vice versa.

As it stands there is no validated clinical criteria for CTE whilst living, which means it cannot be accurately diagnosed in a living person. Hence why an increasing number of athletes are now donating their brains for research because CTE can only be diagnosed post-mortem.

What is know is there is a link between CTE and cognitive impairment, there is also a subsequent link between cognitive impairment and suicidal ideation. What makes any study into CTE difficult is the inability to diagnose a living person, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or we should ignore it.

IE a bloody theory. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

 

[Adam84]

IE a bloody theory. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

well no, what you said was brain injury and associated suicide was a theory, that is incorrect and goes against medical literature.

 

[Gillys_ghost]

One of our teams could do a lot worse than trying to sign Emmanuel Meafou. Australian born and raised, and in some form for Toulouse. Im sure the French will be looking to cap him sooner rather than later.

 

[TSR]

TSR, If I attempt to put to one side his efforts in Australia. One of the problems with Eddie is the revolving door of assistants. I read about 6 months ago that the average lifespan for an Eddie asst. was 4 months. In Roger Gould's case, it was 4 weeks.
Here's a quote by him:
"Working as an assistant to Eddie, you were always having to defend your position. You would put everything on the table and have to convince him that you were right.
"When he put something on the table, you’d have to convince him he was wrong. Trouble was, that never happened.
"He has bad managerial skills. I couldn’t believe the way he talked to people in front of other people. You can’t take away their dignity."

Tales From Eddie Jones' Australia Days Will Not Please England Boss | Balls.ie

In an explosive new book looking at his pre-England days, Eddie Jones' old coaches reveal what he is like to work with in close quarters.

www.balls.ie

Is Eddie the answer? I say no thanks.

That’s fine. I’m far from convinced he’s the right option either.

But he can coach.

 

[stillmissit]

well no, what you said was brain injury and associated suicide was a theory, that is incorrect and goes against medical literature.

As did all the covid advice and look how that turned out. The days of relying on scientific endeavour to guide us has lost a lot of its shine.
I do grant you that medical science is in better shape than other areas of science.

 

[wamberal]

As did all the covid advice and look how that turned out. The days of relying on scientific endeavour to guide us has lost a lot of its shine.
I do grant you that medical science is in better shape than other areas of science.

Depends on how sensible you are. If the medical advice had not been followed (no vaccines? no other precautions?) a large segment of the population (old, immune deficient in particular) would have been decimated.

 

[Derpus]

As did all the covid advice and look how that turned out. The days of relying on scientific endeavour to guide us has lost a lot of its shine.
I do grant you that medical science is in better shape than other areas of science.

Fucken knew it.

 

[gel]

As did all the covid advice and look how that turned out. The days of relying on scientific endeavour to guide us has lost a lot of its shine.
I do grant you that medical science is in better shape than other areas of science.

Most of the sciences are fine.

A lack of understanding of the scientific method, and a general misinterpretation/misuse of the word "theory" by journalists and alumni from the University of Facebook probably has the biggest impact on perception of how the sciences are travelling atm.

But that's just my hypothesis.

OT: Rennie is fine, I actually hope he chooses to stay in the Australian system coz I reckon he probably has a lot to offer the broader rugby "program".

 

[dru]

As did all the covid advice and look how that turned out. The days of relying on scientific endeavour to guide us has lost a lot of its shine.
I do grant you that medical science is in better shape than other areas of science.

God help me, but this is NOT the place for that discussion, SMI. Try "Everything Else" in the non-rugby section.

Fucken knew it.

Yep, something of a low point from our friend there.

 

[Adam84]

Depends on how sensible you are. If the medical advice had not been followed (no vaccines? no other precautions?) a large segment of the population (old, immune deficient in particular) would have been decimated.

I’d suggest this isn’t a discussion worth having, at this point in time people have chosen their beliefs and aren’t changing.