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Wallabies 2023

HogansHeros

Jim Clark (26)
Why is everyone so certain on Jones being past his expiry date?
We got rid of him in 2005 after a poor stint, and he has been pretty successful since then. Was he past his prime in 2005?
Sure he hasnt seen great success recently, but based on percentages he is the most successful coach England has had.
Maybe not everyone agrees with his style or doesnt like him personally, maybe he isnt the right fit for head coach, but to say he is past his expiry date, with essentially nothing to offer is a bit rough.
Wherever he ends up, the experience he brings will be of value.
 

Wallaby Man

Nev Cottrell (35)
The ARU would be foolish to hire Jones who's long past his expiry date as HC over a young gun like Razor who's at the peak of his powers and has lots of good years still to offer. Eddie as head coach would be a backwards step, you need to invest in the future & Jones is a relic of a bygone era, it would be like bringing old mate Robbie back, the guy's a coaching fossil now, even he would admit that. Deans has the courtesy to admit his test coaching days are finished, the problem with Eddie is that he's too proud to admit that he's fast becoming a busted flush, he's in a concerning state of denial, the bloke's got this massive ugly overbearing ego constantly needing to stroke - to the point that he now takes a job simply to make a statement, feed his harrowing addiction. He's got that constant chip on his shoulder. He has a point to prove. So it inevitably becomes all about him and his gigantic ego with an all-consuming toxic competitor mentality at the expense of the harmony of the team environment and the mental health of the playing group - and the coaching staff!
What a load of nonsense about Eddie. His ‘past his expiry date’ style of coaching just yielded a World Cup final and a world record streak a games won consecutively, should also mention he has the highest win percentage of any English coach in history, not bad for someone past it. He has his faults but his record speaks for itself. The current English playing squad has been very positive on his experiences with them when asked.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
At this point, his best contributions aren't going to be in the head coaching role. He's too old & abrasive for today's crop of players.

He's 63 years old, you need a younger coach like Razor to better relate with & develop positive connections with the current playing generation (then have some experienced older heads in the backroom staff like Fisher & Jones to contribute technical knowledge).

By all means, bring him back as a technical advisor or ARU high performance manager (ala Nuicifora), otherwise Eddie is purely a toxic presence.

Strangely enough, ageism was under discussion on just the immediate post before this one.
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
What a weird thing to say. Imagine if the western world cottoned onto this earlier. The Vickerman kids may have spent Christmas with their dad.

I'm sure Sean Wainuis family didn't miss him either.

Steve Thomson doesn't need to remember the 2003 RWC final and was just asking for attention when placed on suicide watch.

My favourite is reading the story about my boyhood idol, Ben Tune attempting suicide because of his depression being so bad he'd rather leave his kids fatherless than be here.

But nah, games gone safe aye!
What do you know about these people's mental state that you can attribute rugby safety to their deaths? I suggest you just want to feel good by posting an emotional and unsubstantiated claim. The battles that people go through and lose are not helped by posts like yours.
I most probably have more experience of suicide than you do as my brother killed himself at 21,
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
I don't think his age has anything to do with it. Can he lead Australian rugby to a position where the game is in a better state than it currently is? That is the fundamental question. I say No!

What happens if Rennie gets us to the semi's or the final?
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
I don't think his age has anything to do with it. Can he lead Australian rugby to a position where the game is in a better state than it currently is? That is the fundamental question. I say No!

What happens if Rennie gets us to the semi's or the final?

Personally, I think Rennie's goose was cooked with the Italy game. We might well justify continuing with Rennie if he took us to the final - and I'd suggest we can't say he can't do it. But we can't say it's looking good either. He is seriously not kicking the house down and we can't wait till then to make a call. I don't think he'll wait that long either.

If we have to make that decision now, and I think we do - it's just not Rennie.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Personally, I think Rennie's goose was cooked with the Italy game. We might well justify continuing with Rennie if he took us to the final - and I'd suggest we can't say he can't do it. But we can't say it's looking good either. He is seriously not kicking the house down and we can't wait till then to make a call. I don't think he'll wait that long either.

If we have to make that decision now, and I think we do - it's just not Rennie.
Correct Dru. I'd be surprised if he didn't leave post RWC - even if he has a decent run.

It's a shame because I like him, seems like a decent guy who has tried to build a positive environment to play in. Just fucked some things up and has a piss poor record.
 

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
Personally, I think Rennie's goose was cooked with the Italy game. We might well justify continuing with Rennie if he took us to the final - and I'd suggest we can't say he can't do it. But we can't say it's looking good either. He is seriously not kicking the house down and we can't wait till then to make a call. I don't think he'll wait that long either.

If we have to make that decision now, and I think we do - it's just not Rennie.
I don't have an issue with 'just not Renie' nor do I have a barrow to push for Rennie. I have been vocal regarding his 'piss poor record' as Derpus says. The only prejudice I have in this critical decision is a 'Just Not Jones' one.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
Correct Dru. I'd be surprised if he didn't leave post RWC - even if he has a decent run.

It's a shame because I like him, seems like a decent guy who has tried to build a positive environment to play in.
Just fucked some things up and has a piss poor record.

Ditto. I really quite rate Rennie as a coach - surely though he will have learned heaps here. And surely his head would be spinning around the importance of injury and discipline. I don't regret his time at the Wallabies at all. I love his media persona and his calmness. I love his boldness with Cooper and Skelton. I could really see some development.

That Italy game though.

I don't have an issue with 'just not Renie' nor do I have a barrow to push for Rennie. I have been vocal regarding his 'piss poor record' as Derpus says. The only prejudice I have in this critical decision is a 'Just Not Jones' one.

That's pretty clear, SMI, and you are by no means on your own. I love the idea of such an accomplished international coach returning home. With a bee in his bonnet. It might not be Jones, but if it is I'll be behind the bloke.
 

rodha

Dave Cowper (27)
Maybe not everyone agrees with his style or doesnt like him personally, maybe he isnt the right fit for head coach, but to say he is past his expiry date, with essentially nothing to offer is a bit rough.
Wherever he ends up, the experience he brings will be of value.

I never said that... only that he's no longer suited to the head coaching role which has evolved into more of a man-management centered position these days.

Jones simply doesn't have the right approach to connect properly with the current generation of players & get the most out of them, which is a head coach's job description.

Unlike Razor, Borthwick, etc.. Eddie's becoming increasingly out of touch with the next generation of rugby players.

Look at how demotivated & miserable the younger England players like Marcus Smith, Arundel, Malins appeared on the field.

He still obviously has technical and tactical knowledge to offer, hence I suggested a technical advisory role with Australia or bringing back the ARU high performance manager/DOR role Nuicifora used to fill.
 
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RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
I can read it. It doesn’t bode well for Rennie I have to say. Sounds like the offer is from 2024 onwards but if he accepts it I think Rennie is out the door tomorrow. Regardless of Eddie, DR is a dead man walking, Rugby Australia are pretty angry with his attitude.

anything further on this? What about his attitude are they angry about?
 

Ignoto

Peter Sullivan (51)
What do you know about these people's mental state that you can attribute rugby safety to their deaths? I suggest you just want to feel good by posting an emotional and unsubstantiated claim. The battles that people go through and lose are not helped by posts like yours.
I most probably have more experience of suicide than you do as my brother killed himself at 21,
Because there's a link between CTE and suicide/suicide ideation.

Vickerman and Tune (I didn't follow Sean's career closely enough to comment) both had major concussions during their careers. Hell, more recently Paul Green killed himself and during his career he was known for playing on after being knocked out.

That's why there is an emphasis on reducing the harm these players suffer from a mental side. We even saw it last year with the Wallabies pulling players out mid week because of suffering mild symptoms.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Because there's a link between CTE and suicide/suicide ideation.

Vickerman and Tune (I didn't follow Sean's career closely enough to comment) both had major concussions during their careers. Hell, more recently Paul Green killed himself and during his career he was known for playing on after being knocked out.

That's why there is an emphasis on reducing the harm these players suffer from a mental side. We even saw it last year with the Wallabies pulling players out mid week because of suffering mild symptoms.

I believe what Stillmissit is getting at is that he refutes the validity of the link. I assume he also disagrees with seatbelts and any form of modern medicine - particularly the 5G delivered government nano-bots and autism causing vaccines.

These players just need to 'toughen up' and accept the inherent risks involved in a contact sport. Anything less than throwing yourself in unmitigated harms way for a game is pathetic 'wokism' wrought by the soft and coddled younger generation.
 

KOB1987

John Eales (66)
+1, can someone post the article text?
I
Rugby Australia have made an offer to Eddie Jones to come home in 2024 but there is a possibility he may yet oversee the Wallabies at this year’s World Cup in France.
The major obstacle is Japan who have offered the master coach a “mega-deal” while France are also keen to have the Australian on board their set-up.

Jones earlier this week confirmed there were a “couple of good options” and he is set to make his decision in the coming weeks.

Rugby Australia powerbrokers have made no secret of their desire to “bring him home”, a man they regard as an “exceptional” leader.

When current Wallabies coach Dave Rennie was asked at a press conference on the Gold Coast on Monday whether he would work with the former England coach he replied: “It won’t happen before (the World Cup).

“There’s a fair bit of speculation about a lot of things but my focus is on this group and the World Cup. Anything else happening beyond that will be clarified over the next few months.”

The three words by Rennie that stunned key people within Rugby Australia were “It won’t happen”.

Rennie’s words had them openly asking: ‘‘Why would he not want to work with one of the leading rugby coaches in the world? Dave’s never led a team at a World Cup, why wouldn’t he be open to working with Jones?”

Rennie was appointed in 2019 by then chief executive Raelene Castle and has a 38 per cent win record, the worst of any Wallabies coach in 50 years. It’s this track record that is of most concern.

That statistic alone could see the reins handed immediately to Jones, who took the Wallabies to the 2003 World Cup final, should he agree to terms.


Jones led England to 18 straight wins which is the world record for a tier one rugby country. He steered England to win three Six Nations tournaments, one grand slam and took them to the 2019 World Cup final in Japan.

The fire has not diminished. An enthusiastic Jones told The Guardian earlier this week that he was: “ready to go again.”

Jones said of the job offers in front of him: “I’ve got a couple of good options. I’m getting to the stage of talking contracts so I’ll make a decision in the next couple of weeks.”

When asked by the journalist Donald McRae, who helped Jones write his autobiography, if he excited by “both options?” Jones replied; “100 per cent, mate.”

He also dismissed he would be an assistant to Rennie. “I’m not an assistant coach, mate. I’m not interested in that sort of job,” Jones said.

If Jones takes RA’s offer it will likely mean the end of Rennie’s tenure. There’s been rumblings that Rennie “doesn’t listen” to RA’s rugby committee’s counsel. It’s understood the Spring Tour is where the rugby committee were left flummoxed by Rennie’s coaching.

It was the 11 changes made to the starting side against Itay – with two debutants and a new captain – that floored many. The Wallabiues lost – their first ever against Italy – and the frustration with Rennie hit boiling point.

But of greater concern to the committee is the stark reality that Australia must string together seven wins to claim the World Cup – and the worrying fact is that Rennie’s team has not won two in a row since October last year.

For the last 18 months Rennie has resisted calls from the RA rugby committee to bring an independent selector in.

RA’s has had concerns over high performance selections for some time and Rennie’s resistance to bringing in an independent voice has been another area of deep concern.

After Christmas a review, an annual occurrence by RA, was delivered by an “independent panel”. As Rennie put it, there was not a “hell of a lot of surprises” in there.

Many keep circling back to “38 per cent’’ and in the end that number could prove more costly to Rennie’s future than anything else.
 

Doritos Day

Johnnie Wallace (23)
Thanks for posting. Pretty empty article.

Way too much is made of the Italy loss. The team put out there was dross, which was forced upon him by playing five tests in a row. That result lies at the feet of R.A. not Rennie.
 
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