Wallabies 2023

[Viking]

Well putting all their egg's in the 34 year old injury prone players basket didn't really work out did it?

We were never winning a world cup with Quade, so I don't see the down side of building with the young guys from 2020 onwards. We are already at an all time low, how much worse could the young guys be?

All eggs aren't in one basket. We have Cooper, JOC (James O'Connor) and Lolesio as experienced options now. This was more then we had 2 years ago.
It is really a step down from Foley, Lealifano, Cooper last RWC cycle?

 

[fatprop]

Thats rubbish. Lolesio, Hodge and now JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) have had opportunity to play as well. Lolesio has played a lot over the past two years and not shown enough. The other younger 10s are much less ready than him. Pulling Quade back in was a shrewd move and if he gets fit quickly no doubt DR will look at him again before the RWC. He will now look at Foley to see if he is an option. Both Lolesio and JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) currently look underwhelming.
The coach and selectors can only choose from those available. DR widened the net. Full credit to him

The World Cup is next year. It is not a long term prospect.

Whether Lolesio has "shown enough" is irrelevant, you run down the list of options still standing and he is the least "meh"

Lolesio is a solid, safe unit and the best option after Cooper, we need to work within his limitations and give him every opportunity to develop over the next year, he already has solid understanding with our starting 9, 13 and 14/15 - we now need to stick with a 12 so he can build combination and we can create a cohesive unit

 

[Tomthumb]

Maybe he is doing exactly what is right for Lolesio's development. Chucking an under developed 10 into the wolves could be the worst thing to do which could hinder his confidence and development. Serving an apprenticeship under the like of Cooper or more experienced players may be exactly what will accelerate his development.

And there wasn't exactly any other options to develop. Last year it was Lolo or Harrison. Edmed, Donaldson weren't realistic options (and probably still aren't),

JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) had a good super season, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't be considered over a player with no or little super rugby caps.

But throwing to the wolves is exactly what he did with Lolesio. All his starts have come against the All blacks, England and France. He has never got to play Argentina or Scotland or Wales or any slightly lesser team

O'Connor also had the worst game ive ever seen in the 2nd England test

 

[fatprop]

I'm not saying we should sack him, I'm asking why did we bother signing him in the first place?

This loser mentality is what's crippling Rugby in this country. How can we expect players to put expectations on themselves if fans don't even care

He is a good coach who is likely to get the best out our sorry lot, we have him, buying someone with less ability to save budgeted money makes no sense

 

[Joe Blow]

Whether Lolesio has "shown enough" is irrelevant, you run down the list of options still standing and he is the least "meh"

Lolesio is a solid, safe unit and the best option after Cooper, we need to work within his limitations and give him every opportunity to develop over the next year, he already has solid understanding with our starting 9, 13 and 14/15 - we now need to stick with a 12 so he can build combination and we can create a cohesive unit

He is worth developing further but so far has not shown enough for DR to back him beyond anyone else.

Of course they want to build combinations at 10-12 or the front row or the back 3. Injury has a way of not allowing you to pick and stick. Form also has a say. We did pick a 12 and now he has a long term injury. The back up was also injured.
Picking and sticking just for the sake of it without seeing positive development makes no sense. Its a balancing act.

 

[fatprop]

He is worth developing further but so far has not shown enough for DR to back him beyond anyone else.

Of course they want to build combinations at 10-12 or the front row or the back 3. Injury has a way of not allowing you to pick and stick. Form also has a say. We did pick a 12 and now he has a long term injury. The back up was also injured.
Picking and sticking just for the sake of it without seeing positive development makes no sense. Its a balancing act.

We have no one else

 

[Viking]

But throwing to the wolves is exactly what he did with Lolesio. All his starts have come against the All blacks, England and France. He has never got to play Argentina or Scotland or Wales or any slightly lesser team

O'Connor also had the worst game ive ever seen in the 2nd England test

Yeah bringing in JOC (James O'Connor) when he openly said he wasn't "sharp enough" was a bad call. Why put him on the bench if he knowingly knew he wasn't training well. I understand the first Test since Cooper when down in the warm up, but then Hodge should have been brought in straight away for the second and third.

 

[Viking]

But throwing to the wolves is exactly what he did with Lolesio. All his starts have come against the All blacks, England and France. He has never got to play Argentina or Scotland or Wales or any slightly lesser team

O'Connor also had the worst game ive ever seen in the 2nd England test

Who else is there after Lolesio? Realistic options he could have brought into camp in the last 3 years? Harrison is the only one.
Edmed, Donaldon are only on the radar from this year.

 

[Froggy]

I just think this concept of everything revolving around the WC in a four year cycle is bullshit. It basically means nothing really matters until then, and if you had a bad WC the whole four years is wasted. As far as I'm concerned, particularly as an ex player who never earned one, the Wallaby jumper is sacred, and the only people who should get to play in one are the best 23 available for any given test. And every test is played to win.

From some of the crap on here, you could win the Bledisloe three times in a row, be undefeated in a northern hemisphere tour, and if you drop out of the WC in the quarter finals the whole four years has been wasted.

Now who you pick for any test as being part of that best 23 is always going to be open to debate, and that's what we do here and I thoroughly enjoy, but the idea that you don't pick your best 10 because he's 34 and might get injured before the WC just doesn't cut it for me. If he's the best available ((in the eyes of the selectors) he should be picked.

 

[KevinO]

He doesn't have to win every game. The guy has a 39% win rate and has zero pressure, they are even talking about an extension

Rennie has been giving more rope than any tier 1 coach in history. The welsh want Pivac sacked, the Scots want Townsend sacked, ditto the Kiwi's and even the english to a certain extent. Rennie is teflon

Remove Cheika's first year, and the Wallabies have been below 40% since then. He has actually made a slight improvement from where he took over. Problem is in that 8 years roughly, France and improved, Ireland have improved, England improved, Argentina improved, South Africa improved.

 

[Tomthumb]

No, I’d take dropping out of a World Cup if it meant wins in between. But we don’t even get that

The fact is we haven’t won the Bledisloe in 2 decades and just went winless in a northern Tour. You say the wallaby jersey is sacred, yet defend all the poor performances of the players wearing it

 

[Tomthumb]

Remove Cheika's first year, and the Wallabies have been below 40% since then. He has actually made a slight improvement from where he took over. Problem is in that 8 years roughly, France and improved, Ireland have improved, England improved, Argentina improved, South Africa improved.

Haha that’s not how it works

By that logic remove 2021 from Rennies record

Why can all these other teams improve but we can’t?

 

[Viking]

No, I’d take dropping out of a World Cup if it meant wins in between. But we don’t even get that

The fact is we haven’t won the Bledisloe in 2 decades and just went winless in a northern Tour. You say the wallaby jersey is sacred, yet defend all the poor performances of the players wearing it

I don't think anyone is really defending the players. Mainly just putting things into perspective. Many are defending the coach, as we've been through 4 different coaches now with similar results. I think it's safe the say the coach ain't the primary issue. We simply don't have access to the same cattle we use too (proportionately compared to other nations - our player pool is diminishing whilst others are increasing).

I blame Rugby Australia moreso then anything.

 

[Viking]

Haha that’s not how it works

By that logic remove 2021 from Rennies record

Why can all these other teams improve but we can’t?

To be fair, I'm pretty sure Rennie has played the All Blacks more times then anyone else. Win percentage helps depending on the opposition.

 

[Joe Blow]

We have no one else

And………??

We have Lolesio, JOC (James O'Connor) and Hodge. We also had Cooper.

In the Oz A games we had Edmed and Donaldson. There are a few to choose from, all with some issues. Its DR and his selectors choice.

 

[Froggy]

Looking to our immediate choice of 10's, while I don't think Lolesio has been poor, at this particular stage in his career I don't think he's offering more than Hodge. If you are getting the same basics from each of them, and Hodge is a stronger defender and has a bigger boot, Hodge would be my choice. I don't think either is ideal as we are missing the game management and creativity of a Cooper, but with people who may have those skills like Donaldson and Gordon not ready yet, it might be a least worse option.

 

[stillmissit]

Whether Lolesio has "shown enough" is irrelevant, you run down the list of options still standing and he is the least "meh"

Lolesio is a solid, safe unit and the best option after Cooper, we need to work within his limitations and give him every opportunity to develop over the next year, he already has solid understanding with our starting 9, 13 and 14/15 - we now need to stick with a 12 so he can build combination and we can create a cohesive unit

Any "meh" 10 would go well behind a decent pack...

 

[Tomthumb]

I don't think anyone is really defending the players. Mainly just putting things into perspective. Many are defending the coach, as we've been through 4 different coaches now with similar results. I think it's safe the say the coach ain't the primary issue. We simply don't have access to the same cattle we use too (proportionately compared to other nations - our player pool is diminishing whilst others are increasing).

I blame Rugby Australia moreso then anything.

I think this is where we differ, I feel we do have the cattle. Talent or ability or even playing number are not the reason we are 7th. It's a lack of rugby nous. Ireland don't have better athletes than us, they just have players better coached from a young age than understand all aspects of the game. This is the kind of stuff Aussie rugby used to be known for

I don't blame Tom Wright for not understanding where to stand at fullback, I blame the coaches that have never taught him. He's as good an athlete as there is in rugby, there is really no excuse for not teaching him this stuff.

An over reliance on Kiwi coaches hasn't helped the development of young Aussie coaches. Deans and Rennie haven't changed our fortunes at test level at all and Gibson and Penny nearly killed the Waratahs entirely. And lets not even mention the Rebels going from one bad South African coach to another. On the flip side both our world cups were won by Aussies, and both our other WC final teams coached by Aussie's. All the Brumbies, Reds & Waratahs titles were won with Australians coaching.

We need to go back to developing good coaches in Australia from club level on up. That is the only way we will ever has sustained success

 

[Viking]

I think this is where we differ, I feel we do have the cattle. Talent or ability or even playing number are not the reason we are 7th. It's a lack of rugby nous. Ireland don't have better athletes than us, they just have players better coached from a young age than understand all aspects of the game. This is the kind of stuff Aussie rugby used to be known for

I don't blame Tom Wright for not understanding where to stand at fullback, I blame the coaches that have never taught him. He's as good an athlete as there is in rugby, there is really no excuse for not teaching him this stuff.

An over reliance on Kiwi coaches hasn't helped the development of young Aussie coaches. Deans and Rennie haven't changed our fortunes at test level at all and Gibson and Penny nearly killed the Waratahs entirely. And lets not even mention the Rebels going from one bad South African coach to another. On the flip side both our world cups were won by Aussies, and both our other WC final teams coached by Aussie's. All the Brumbies, Reds & Waratahs titles were won with Australians coaching.

We need to go back to developing good coaches in Australia from club level on up. That is the only way we will ever has sustained success

I agree with this. But I don't think it's the test level coach who should be coaching Wright where to stand in fullback. Those skills surely are taught well before that, at schoolboy, club and super rugby level.

Having a Test coach having to teach the basics of each position to each player, well then they are already well behind the rest of the world.

 

[Tomthumb]

I agree with this. But I don't think it's the test level coach who should be coaching Wright where to stand in fullback. Those skills surely are taught well before that, at schoolboy, club and super rugby level.

Having a Test coach having to teach the basics of each position to each player, well then they are already well behind the rest of the world.

Generally yes, but Rennie was the one putting a winger at Fullback. If you want to change someone's position you should at least make sure he understands what to do in the new position