Wales v Australia

[Quick Hands]

Ordinarily, I'd say "I can't believe you and Ash are still on the Foley hate train", but I totally fucking can because you're bucking for your own blokes to fill the back line, despite a complete lack of justification for why. Well, except to scream:

"FOLEY MISSED A TOUCH FINDER!"
"FOLEY IS BEING HIDDEN ON THE WING!"

Foley is the fucking reason our attack looks anything like awesome.
Foley is the guy kicking goals that Lilo can't make.
Foley is the guy willing to take it into contact and set up the next play instead of transferring pressure.
Foley is the guy who took a decision to knock over a drop goal under pressure to get us back into the lead.

He's not running a one man show, but respected ex-Test players from anther fucking country picked him as MOTM.

But fuck, keep arguing with reality why don't you.

Yes we all know that allowing Foley to kick the drop goal is part of the secret Waratah plot to take over the test team.

In the eyes of some, one Waratah in the test team is one too many. (And then any loss is blamed on the Waratahs not pulling their weight in Australian rugby - just like lack of coverage for the NRC final was the Waratahs fault because none of our teams made the final)

I thought Phipps and Foley were both great and they are both maturing and getting better every week. Phipps seems to be the only half who can pass flat without taking a skip step or two. Kurindrani continues to excel. Folau and Hooper at their usual high standard.

The scrum started well and while they were under pressure leading up to the penalty try, the scrum feed was at 45% and should have been a Wallaby FK - or are we back to not enforcing scrum feeds?

A solid performance all round from the team - particularly impressed that they came back and won after losing the lead in the second half.

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Foley v Cooper is an interesting battle. I want to see Cooper outside Phipps against quality opposition. His propensity to throw a long pass when nothing's 'on' is well known, but I'd like to see him play nice and flat with TK and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) outside him, and Folau lurking as a jailbreak.

No doubt I'll be shouted down for this, but Foley is just as patchy, and our attack in the first half this morning was augmented by a Folau intercept and a brilliant effort by Hooper. His dropped goal was smooth and composed, and it shows he will develop into a good helmsman, however his grubber kicks were a worry and would have been punished by teams like England or NZ (again, Hooper saved the day). Also, while he plays flat and encourages go-forward, there were times where he stood up high in contact and nearly lost crucial ball.

Either way, I don't think either should be viewed as a lay-down misere for first pick 10 against England and Wales next year just yet.

 

[Dave Beat]

Yes we all know that allowing Foley to kick the drop goal is part of the secret Waratah plot to take over the test team.

I remember a very similar shot last year that was rather local to home.

 

[Pfitzy]

Everyone saying Foley's kick was a stupid option: remind me how well trying to grind out of our 22 in the last Test worked?

It was clearly working to the game plan for the second half I.e. get out of our half, trust your defence. Turning over the ball in your own half with less than an eight point lead is stupid

 

[Inside Shoulder]

measure it this way: what would the all blacks do?

 

[Teh Other Dave]

Everyone saying Foley's kick was a stupid option: remind me how well trying to grind out of our 22 in the last Test worked?

It was clearly working to the game plan for the second half I.e. get out of our half, trust your defence. Turning over the ball in your own half with less than an eight point lead is stupid

I think that depends on the situation: if you're failing to get over the gain line send it to the pocket; if you're forcing them to commit to the breakdown and leaving space at the fringes, you're probably better off with ball in hand.
Either way, that's rugby - the ball is in dispute, the question is whether to trust tired legs in chasing a kick that will most likely end up in opposition hands, or trusting tired legs to truck it up and clear out at the breakdown.

 

[Dave Beat]

I think that depends on the situation: if you're failing to get over the gain line send it to the pocket; if you're forcing them to commit to the breakdown and leaving space at the fringes, you're probably better off with ball in hand.
Either way, that's rugby - the ball is in dispute, the question is whether to trust tired legs in chasing a kick that will most likely end up in opposition hands, or trusting tired legs to truck it up and clear out at the breakdown.

That Foley kick, how about Hoopers hit on the guy returning the ball from that kick - way to lift the team.

 

[ChargerWA]

Well we didn't beat SA and NZ this year.

Except when we beat SA in Perth. But they probably just let us win that day.

 

[Ruggo]

Regarding that drop goal am I the only one that thinks it was a sensational team effort over multiple phases. It didn't look like a spare of the moment thing.

 

[Ruggo]

Everyone saying Foley's kick was a stupid option: remind me how well trying to grind out of our 22 in the last Test worked?

It was clearly working to the game plan for the second half I.e. get out of our half, trust your defence. Turning over the ball in your own half with less than an eight point lead is stupid

So, so easy to judge these things with hindsight. I don't think it was the wrong decision. For the record I think Cooper would of made the same decision. I don't think it was a greatly executed kick but that also is one of those things that are easy to judge with hindsight.

 

[Gnostic]

Well we didn't beat SA and NZ this year.

And If you read the rest of my post you will see evidence backing up that comment. He needs to cut out the errors and improve the defence because teams like NZ and SA find ways to expose weaknesses and take full advantage of errors.

If you think Foley is going to magically "rise to the opposition" then you may find you are mistaken.

I don't get the mentality that it's okay to play down to lesser opposition. NZ don't do this often, they absolutely dominate lesser opposition and find ways to beat harder opponents. We should be doing to same.

Play hard every god damn game.

Like they dominated England??

I've never really believed that a majority of the posters had such deep seated provincial biases. For me once it comes to Wallaby time I don't give a rats where the player comes from all that matters is form.

Over the last two weeks I seen for the first time since Mark Ella was made Captain over Andrew Slack, a huge bias in so many posters. Maybe I was blind before, I don't give a rats. Far too many people have set in stone opinions and look for errors to tee up just like a fools in a climate change debate. They are not looking for real form points, attacking and defensive structures and for me the coaching areas that need to be addressed to allow the squad to grow and improve.

The PETTY provincialism is blinding to all else. FFS let it go and put some gold goggles on and drop the Blue, Red and what ever the other coloured lens are.

 

[Sully]

Everyone saying Foley's kick was a stupid option: remind me how well trying to grind out of our 22 in the last Test worked?

It was clearly working to the game plan for the second half I.e. get out of our half, trust your defence. Turning over the ball in your own half with less than an eight point lead is stupid

It was fucking stupid because there was 35 seconds to go! So like two more rucks! Calling that grinding is a joke. It just shows we have learnt nothing from the fucking stupid White kick from a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Gnostic]

Seriously guys, I'm not a huge Gatland fan but what do you expect him to say - "by RWC2015 Aus will be out of sight & we'll have no chance"!
He's bigging up his own teams future to try & cover up his own coaching inadequacy.
Self preservation and all that

I said earlier in the thread, I stated two years ago that I thought the WRU made a massive mistake resigning Gatland. They are no better than they were four years ago and results show that. They have stagnated and even with new players revitalising the side they are not playing any different. This Wallabies side was as disjointed as they are ever likely to get. They are learning a new defensive structure and a new attack structure, without the first 4 choice hookers, no back-up THP, and three first choice backrowers out. Gatland will bring up the centre issue he had but he had choices that did not drastically change the team structure.

I do not see the Welsh as a threat next year, at best they will be as they were in this game and have been for the last 10. Nearly there but not getting any closer. Its too late to sack Gatland now but I would suggest that if Chieka gets some significant improvements bedded down Walsh will not make it out of the RWC pool stages as Ireland have a massive margin for improvement as Schmidt makes similar improvements. Indeed they may even have some problems with Fiji if their new coach can get some forward consistency and technical aspects right.

 

[The Red Baron]

http://www.espn.co.uk/scrum/rugby/match/218861.html

Thanks Ash. Looking at that, McCalmans stats are great - 10 tackles, none missed. 13 Runs for 25 metres, one lineout take - and no penalties against him. Kinda confirms what I have been seeing from him: no nonsense, with a high workrate in the tight.

I'd love to see how many rucks he entered, with an effective participation.

 

[Shelts89]

I do not see the Welsh as a threat next year, at best they will be as they were in this game and have been for the last 10. Nearly there but not getting any closer. Its too late to sack Gatland now but I would suggest that if Chieka gets some significant improvements bedded down Walsh will not make it out of the RWC pool stages as Ireland have a massive margin for improvement as Schmidt makes similar improvements. Indeed they may even have some problems with Fiji if their new coach can get some forward consistency and technical aspects right.

All well and good... But Ireland aren't in the same pool as you and the Welsh. Its us Poms.

 

[Sully]

The kind of stats that get you near the bottom of our Have a rank posts. Sad really.

 

[Pfitzy]

It was fucking stupid because there was 35 seconds to go! So like two more rucks! Calling that grinding is a joke. It just shows we have learnt nothing from the fucking stupid White kick from a couple of weeks ago.

Actually, we did learn in that we should have a kicker set and ready to execute, and a chasing line ready to go.

We didn't commit 6 forwards into a ruck moving backwards and leave the half back with no options.

We got out of our half - something White's kick failed to do - and trusted our defence to finish the job. Which it did.

Win for the game plan.

 

[Sully]

Bullshit. We didn't learn because holding the ball gives you a better chance of winning. Kicking the ball to the opposition is a 100% chance of a turnover. Any chance we might giving them by holding the ball for 35 seconds is lower than that.

 

[Pfitzy]

The kind of stats that get you near the bottom of our Have a rank posts. Sad really.

The same 107 people who put Slipper "thumbs down", or the 153 who gave Phipps a vote down.

I don't think many of them have realised that you don't actually have to select a thumb - if you think someone was "OK" don't click on either.

TK still ranks highly because he's visible. He scores tries for example, or breaks a tackle or two. The work of the other players who make that happen inside him aren't often recognised.

 

[Micheal]

So, so easy to judge these things with hindsight. I don't think it was the wrong decision. For the record I think Cooper would of made the same decision. I don't think it was a greatly executed kick but that also is one of those things that are easy to judge with hindsight.

I'm also in the school of thought that the clearing kick in the last minute was the right option to take.

Someone on the comments on the game review in the main page said something like:

"I can't believe Foley didn't trust our forwards to grind the game out for the final minute".

But likewise, I don't think its a huge ask for him to trust the team to defend for the final minute.

For me, grinding the game out in our half comes at risk of giving away a penalty 30-40m out from our own line as the Welsh desperately try to steal the ball, and as we desperately try to secure it. In such a scenario I could imagine Skelton / Simmons / Carter (although the latter two weren't on) / some dopey 2nd rower flopping over the ball or going off their feet and giving the Welsh a penalty in prime attacking position.

Instead, I'd prefer to play the game in their half, and putting the pressure back on them.

Often I think we are critical of the decisions our players make, when we really should be critical of the way they executed these decisions. Although the kick wasn't executed terribly well, the rest of the plan was. We did defend out the rest of the game, and we did win it.

If we had held on to the ball, given the penalty away and lost the game, perhaps we would all be lambasting him for not kicking it.