Wales v Australia, Sunday 21st 4.30 am ADST.

[wamberal]

Tim Horan, our greatest ever 12, (and worst commentator ever), was not big or heavy. But I'd take him in a heartbeat in front of any of those listed above at 12. He was a very mediocre 10 though. The two roles were very different and still are.

Brett Papworth was small but useful.

 

[KOB1987]

Big Kid Syndrome (TM) - the player who matures physically a lot faster than their peers can fall into the trap of not maturing mentally, and developing the appropriate work ethic.

There's also the 'KB (Kurtley Beale)' syndrome, although a bit rarer. I.e. rather than 'give it to the big kid', give it to the bloke who's going to run straight through them and there's no need to teach him any other skills.

 

[wamberal]

I like what I see of Donaldson and Gordon.

I haven't seen much of Gordon, but IMHO Donaldson the best of the Waratahs options.

 

[The Nomad]

Size matters more with modern defensive systems, you need a big body to get over the advantage line early or the rush defence will eat you up. If you don’t have absolute size then you at least need dynamic runners like Perese or Koroibete who manage to get over the gain line more often than not.

Kerevi’s a freak in that he can beat the first tackler from a standing start because his footwork is amazing for his size. His presence helped mask a lot of clunkiness in attack as guys have been over running lines or receiving the ball too deep and static. It was evident in the Japan game when Quade had to take the ball into contact a number of times because his runners weren’t in the right place.

In Kerevi’s absence we actually have players who, while not enormous size wise, run great lines and can get us over the gain line. I don’t think we’ve used them well in this capacity though. Hunter, for instance, is a great hole runner and he makes a lot of metres running back against the grain (e.g. that try he scored off the lineout in Auckland). He came on leaps and bounds last year with the development of his kicking and passing game but I think they’ve got him trying to do too much at the moment. I’d like to see them strip it back this game and have Hunter running hard and flat off JOC (James O'Connor) early in the phase count to punch over the gain line. We can then get a role on with the likes of Valetini and Tupou running around the corner, which is when we look our best.

Agree regarding Hunter’s running lines and the role he should play . He can absolutely get us over the advantage line , particularly if that is the main role he is given . JOC (James O'Connor) will need to play a little flatter though otherwise the lines are too easy to read for the defence.

For me the biggest concern with our attack has been the speed and inaccuracy of our attacking rucks . They have been way too slow and have been turned over too often. A well timed unders line also improves your chances of quick , front foot rugby . The slow ruck speed of the last few games has been hard to watch , for me it’s what makes our attack look so clunky.

Hopefully we will see an improvement in this tomorrow morning.

 

[Up the Guts]

Agree regarding Hunter’s running lines and the role he should play . He can absolutely get us over the advantage line , particularly if that is the main role he is given . JOC (James O'Connor) will need to play a little flatter though otherwise the lines are too easy to read for the defence.

For me the biggest concern with our attack has been the speed and inaccuracy of our attacking rucks . They have been way to slow and have been turned over too often. A well timed unders line also improves your chances of quick , front foot rugby . The slow ruck speed of the last few games has been hard to watch , for me it’s what makes our attack look so clunky.

Hopefully we will see an improvement in this tomorrow morning.

Agree, we were better after the French series and have dropped away again.

 

[Derpus]

I haven't seen much of Gordon, but IMHO Donaldson the best of the Waratahs options.

He really isnt

 

[Lightblue]

He really isnt

In your humble opinion...

 

[wamberal]

He really isnt

Prove it.

 

[TSR]

It’s nice to have some genuine options.

I have no idea who will end up being the best between Lolesio, Harrison, Gordon x 2, Donaldson, Edmed, Pasitoa, Kuenzle, Lynagh but it’s great to have some genuine emerging talent and competition.

We just have to give them some time. At this post Lolesio has a bit of a jump on the pack but they are all so young. Time is on their side.

Edit: anyhow - none of them are playing tonight. Will be interested if we can get better field position tonight. I’m concerned teams playing the Wallabies have a blue print for success against us because we probably still have the weakest kicking game combined with relatively poor discipline.

 

[Brumby Runner]

There is also Pasitoa. Best suited to the centres but time will tell in 2022 if he has what it takes at flyhalf.

Tim Horan, our greatest ever 12, (and worst commentator ever), was not big or heavy. But I'd take him in a heartbeat in front of any of those listed above at 12. He was a very mediocre 10 though. The two roles were very different and still are.

And backline players were generally smaller back in the day. We had some big bodies and big hitters at the time we were on top of the world, Mortlock, Roff, Burke, Tuqueri, et al. And Larkham wasn't small as a No 10. In their time, Horan and Jason Little were not little either by then current standards.

 

[Drew]

In your humble opinion...

He has more time and control.

 

[KOB1987]

Aside from Tuquiri none of those blokes are big by any standard. I stood behind Larkham in a queue for the athletics at the 2000 Olympics, tall but very lean. I’ll admit he was a pretty imposing presence though, but I think that’s because of who he was rather than his size.

 

[KOB1987]

He has more time and control.

He’s more composed and conservative. Not sure if that translates to better. We went shit with both of them, they both need a better team around them to be compared properly.

 

[Drew]

He’s more composed and conservative. Not sure if that translates to better. We went shit with both of them, they both need a better team around them to be compared properly.

I’d agree with that. Lolesio is probably suffering from being in a dominant team and suddenly been thrust into the role because he was behind a dominant pack

 

[Italophile]

There's also the 'KB (Kurtley Beale)' syndrome, although a bit rarer. I.e. rather than 'give it to the big kid', give it to the bloke who's going to run straight through them and there's no need to teach him any other skills.

Pretty much. Years and years ago, more than I care to remember, the ABC used to show Sydney schools rugby. KB (Kurtley Beale) was at Joeys playing 10 singlehandedly demolishing the oppo on many an occasion. Give it to KB (Kurtley Beale) and enjoy the spectacle. Seemingly a man against boys.

Straight to the Tahs from school, starting at 10, and it quickly became a case of a boy against men. Ultimately moved to 15 to let him acclimatise to the step-up in demands.

 

[Derpus]

I’d agree with that. Lolesio is probably suffering from being in a dominant team and suddenly been thrust into the role because he was behind a dominant pack

For a junior 10 thrown into test rugby i think Lolesio has done really well. He fucked up a few times but he had some really good moments too.

Only way is up for the lad.

 

[Joe Blow]

Birth name	Matthew James Giteau
Date of birth	29 September 1982 (age 39)
Place of birth	Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Height	178 cm (5 ft 10 in)
Weight	85 kg (13 st 5 lb; 187 lb)

Yes, but Noah is nowhere near as quick as Giteau

 

[Joe Blow]

Tim Horan, our greatest ever 12, (and worst commentator ever), was not big or heavy. But I'd take him in a heartbeat in front of any of those listed above at 12. He was a very mediocre 10 though. The two roles were very different and still are.

Pace pace pace

 

[Sully]

Australia has never played with a big bodied inside centre you say?

Stirling Mortlock, Dan and Anthony Herbert and Morgan Turinui all say hi.

 

[Joe Blow]

And backline players were generally smaller back in the day. We had some big bodies and big hitters at the time we were on top of the world, Mortlock, Roff, Burke, Tuqueri, et al. And Larkham wasn't small as a No 10. In their time, Horan and Jason Little were not little either by then current standards.

And back then when we played Horan, Giteau etc we had some pretty decent sized 13s outside them. Little, Mortlock, Herbert and co. It is very difficult if you have two small centres. Players like Paisami and Perese have a lot of power and play beyond their weight in attack and defence so can fill the role of the bigger centre. Petaia also has size and power and hopefully will find his way back to 13 at some point.