Wales v Australia, Monday 18 November 3:10am AEDT

[stillmissit]

Kerevi's Red Card is definitely a red card.

He rockets into the tackle at considerable speed, and while in isolation there is nothing wrong with this, the degree of danger is higher as the force of impact is higher/ larger and reduces the amount of control he has over the collision. This is pretty obvious watching it both slowly and at full speed. Kerevi's going in too quick for even himself and doesn't have time to adjust to what the ball carriers doing to make a legal tackle. Going hard into contact is clearly high risk and high reward, but ultimately tacklers have an onus on themselves to be in control of their own contact.

He's also upright, and upright doesn't mean 'standing tall' - ball carriers always dip late and brace for contact instinctually and ultimately it's predictable as a defender, you need to be lower than them.

Then it's direct head on head at the same moment his body hits the ball carriers body, or - there is nothing that will take away from the initial force of the impact.

Easy red - he won't play again on this tour.

So if we follow your twisted logic all nations must stop the rush defence to ensure there are no injuries. Your analysis is strange - ie entering the tackle at speed - never heard of cutting down space?. Kerevi's height was OK apart from the carrier dipping at the last second. NOthing to take away from the initial force of impact - are you suggesting that anyone tackling with force should be penalised or is it only those who clash heads?
This is very unlikely to be more than a one game suspension and then only to support the tele judge who got it wrong.
Just in case you have forgotten this is a contact sport.

 

[BDA]

Has this game confirmed Nic White and Samu Kerevi probably won't be in Joe Schmidt's future plans? Injuries notwithstanding.

Can't agree re Kerevi. He looked decent enough to me. I expect he'll likely be in the Lions series squad as one of our centres (Ikitau, Suallii, Kerevi, Pasami)

 

[LeCheese]

I wouldn't say this was a hindsight thing based on what happened. For example - you can approach it like the below regardless of the outcome:

*toot toot* "Time off - potential head injury here lets have him assessed" and then say nothing else.

Rather than jumping to the end outcome before you have all of the information.

That probably should've been how it was handled, but again, hindsight is perfect.

Doleman was clearly anxious/nervous/ on edge from the first whistle and this was one of the examples where it was obvious for all.

Bit of a bizarre comment - as I said, I've been critical of him in the past, but thought he actually managed the game quite well. The game flowed, he was very communicative, and he made definitive decisions (rightly or wrongly) when he needed to.

 

[Braveheart81]

Should Botham have gone off? Almost certainly. Was that Doleman's error? I don't think so.

I don't think there is any ability for Doleman to overrule what happened and force the player off for a full HIA.

Only the neutral match day doctor can do that. Doleman can call for the player to be looked at which he was.

 

[Brumby Runner]

When's the last time we won two away games in the a row not including minnows at the world cup?

Didn't we beat Wales in consecutive games earlier this year? And weren't they rated above us at the time?

 

[stillmissit]

Thoughts about Seru Uru's performance?

I thought he played well, took some clean lineout ball, tackled strongly, make meters in contact and won a TO penalty at the breakdown. He'll be there next week if Wilson is still on HIA.

 

[Braveheart81]

Didn't we beat Wales in consecutive games earlier this year? And weren't they rated above us at the time?

The question was about away games.

 

[John S]

Bit of a bizarre comment - as I said, I've been critical of him in the past, but thought he actually managed the game quite well. The game flowed, he was very communicative, and he made definitive decisions (rightly or wrongly) when he needed to.

I've also been critical of Doleman but I think he did better this morning regardless of his inconsistent decisions re head knocks. I liked he was really on the flow of the game, not letting either team waste time at the breakdown, or getting set for set piece.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Who do Wales play next week? Could be a blood bath the way they looked. Dejected and the gatland even look unsurprised by it all. Didn't look like a team that will come out firing and more one that's packed it in.

 

[LeCheese]

I don't think there is any ability for Doleman to overrule what happened and force the player off for a full HIA.

Only the neutral match day doctor can do that. Doleman can call for the player to be looked at which he was.

I thought the same, but had a quick google and found this in the HIA FAQ on the WR (World Rugby) passport:

4. Who can request an HIA1 off-field assessment?
The on-field medical staff (as defined by each union), the referee or the MDD are allowed to request an off-field assessment.

It's a bit unclear as to whether on off-field assessment can be requested after a player has been given the okay, however. Although I do vaguely recall an instance where the MDD has forced someone off following an assessment, but don't recall when that was.

 

[John S]

I thought the same, but had a quick google and found this in the HIA FAQ on the WR (World Rugby) (World Rugby) passport:

It's a bit unclear as to whether on off-field assessment can be requested after a player has been given the okay, however. Although I do vaguely recall an instance where the MDD has forced someone off following an assessment, but don't recall when that was.

I have a similar vague recollection. My Wallaby bias thinks it was one of ours, and it was a bit controversial at the time

 

[LeCheese]

Who do Wales play next week? Could be a blood bath the way they looked. Dejected and the gatland even look unsurprised by it all. Didn't look like a team that will come out firing and more one that's packed it in.

Yeah, South Africa ain't gonna be pretty.

Gatland basically gave his resignation speech in the post-match. It's very clear he thinks it's best for him to go, but the higher-ups do not see it that way.

 

[Dctarget]

Who do Wales play next week? Could be a blood bath the way they looked. Dejected and the gatland even look unsurprised by it all. Didn't look like a team that will come out firing and more one that's packed it in.

no one special, South Africa.

Gatland was dejected minute one. Grim watching.

 

[BDA]

You gotta think Rassie will rest his top 20 players next week.

 

[Adam84]

No, Doleman should have demanded he go off for an assessment if he was so sure he was knocked out, or should have reverted to his original call of penalty for not rolling away if the player wasn't actually knocked out. Keeping it as a scrum was moronic

Keeping it as a scrum was stupid, but the intent of Doleman's decision was the right one. If he was knocked out, the medical team should have taken the official's guidance on the issue; claiming that they'd done an assessment in the 10 seconds between these decisions occurring makes a mockery of the whole head contact issue.

 

[John S]

no one special, South Africa.

Gatland was dejected minute one. Grim watching.

Oh yeah, the Welsh coaching box was not a happy one.

This is possibly one for the broadcasting thread, but the Eng/SA game on stan was much better viewing - they got a lot better angles. In the wallabies game, they were packing a scrum, nearly got to "set" before the camera swung away from the coaches back to the game!

 

[JRugby2]

So if we follow your twisted logic all nations must stop the rush defence to ensure there are no injuries. Your analysis is strange - ie entering the tackle at speed - never heard of cutting down space?. Kerevi's height was OK apart from the carrier dipping at the last second. NOthing to take away from the initial force of impact - are you suggesting that anyone tackling with force should be penalised or is it only those who clash heads?
This is very unlikely to be more than a one game suspension and then only to support the tele judge who got it wrong.
Just in case you have forgotten this is a contact sport.

Why is it twisted logic. The logic here is you as the tackler need to be in control of your own tackle - and if you do anything that reduces your control (like sprint into contact in this example) then you have to accept the risk. The reward being if it comes off you put the attacking team on the back foot if you get it right.

His height wasn't ok - and whether you accept it or not, that has been consistently applied for a long time. He's no lower than the ball carrier who is merely bracing for contact (predictable - all ball carriers do this in contact) and he's driving up.

There are a lot of examples where players can cut down space in rush defence or hit someone hard at speed and not hit someones head at the same time, this just wasn't one of them.

 

[Dctarget]

I can't quite get my head around what happened to Wales. They should've been feeling pretty pleased after RWC23. Somehow in 12 months they're the worst team in their entire history.

 

[JRugby2]

That probably should've been how it was handled, but again, hindsight is perfect.

Bit of a bizarre comment - as I said, I've been critical of him in the past, but thought he actually managed the game quite well. The game flowed, he was very communicative, and he made definitive decisions (rightly or wrongly) when he needed to.

Late in the first half he stopped the game again because he thought he saw a dangerous clean out, that was completely fine. A professional referee should be able to calmly handle both of these situations in ways that don't back them into logical corners.

Should have just waited for the head assessment in the first one, and then second should have been 'silently' referred to the TMO.

Those are the moments that matter.

 

[JRugby2]

I can't quite get my head around what happened to Wales. They should've been feeling pretty pleased after RWC23. Somehow in 12 months they're the worst team in their entire history.

Heaps of retirements, poor administration and a broken domestic system (more broken than ours).

Its incredibly sad. Couldn't believe how quiet the stadium sounded on TV after Tom Wrights second try.